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What instances are people here using? I recently decided to give Lemmy a try. From what I had been seeing I was planning to sign up to BeeHaw, only to find that
by NoboruWataya 3y ago
What instances are people here using? I recently decided to give Lemmy a try. From what I had been seeing I was planning to sign up to BeeHaw, only to find that they had defederated two of the largest instances due to their lax sign-up policies. I can understand their reasoning and it looks like it was relatively well handled, but it still makes that instance impractical. I ended up going to VLemmy as it was one of the recommended ones, seems fairly general purpose and doesn't seem to have much "baggage" (political or otherwise).
They say the instance you choose doesn't matter that much, but if even large instances are going to start defederating then there is a kind of Keynesian beauty contest to choosing the right instance - you might not care what an instance looks like if you're just using it as a gateway to the fediverse, but you need to choose an instance that doesn't repulse the other instances too much.
- mikae1 3y ago> They say the instance you choose doesn't matter that much I would way that's not true. Mostly speaking from a Mastodon perspective, but should be true for Lemmy/Kbin too. Healthy small ones with active moderation should be a good choice as they have a lesser chance of being defederated. Many smaller instances recently defederated mastodon.social because of spam. You should also choose one that doesn't defederate other instances left and right (if that's what you're not after). https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy and https://fedidb.org/software/kbin https://fedidb.org/software/kbin might be helpful.
- rcarmo 3y agoSpam is one factor, but biases is another that I don't see mentioned often enough. I'm on mastodon.social, see zero spam, and reading through discussions of past bans it looks as if smaller admins banned it because of tiny vocal minorities that might as well be individually dealt with. I also signed up to another instance (which I am not going to mention) and to hachyderm.io (which nominally caters more to techies, and where I'm essentially lurking) and the local timeline is full of self-promotion and activism. Better cat pics, but I'm struggling to find good discussions. The former instance was just full of idealistic randos chanting as Twitter went belly-up, and although it was all "positive", it was very much the Clockwork Orange kind of positive... Regarding Lemmy, right now I'm on the fence. The defederation of Lemmy.world means I can't follow the 3D Printing community there (as well as a couple of others catering to makers and electronics), and Mastodon integration isn't working, so I'm really tempted to just subscribe via RSS or set up a private Lemmy/Kbin instance just to follow the things I'm interested in (which seems wasteful and overly complex). Anyway, my opinion right now is that the bubble syndrome is really strong in the Fediverse.
- misnome 3y ago> reading through discussions of past bans it looks as if smaller admins banned it because of tiny vocal minorities that might as well be individually dealt with. I’ve ceased looking at the local feed (instead of people I follow), because it always seemed to be defederation drama. This mostly seemed to be “This other large instance has one person we don’t like and won’t impose _our_ moderation standards, so we are defederating”. Or, poor you if you wanted to follow Doctors Without Borders because a news organisation your instance doesn’t like joined it. Running your own instance seems to be the only way to avoid this, but Mastodon doesn’t seem to be lightweight and I don’t know how sustainable it is for e.g. _everyone_ to do that.
- rcarmo 3y agoI am actually running a Takahe instance, and it is the lightest, easiest to maintain thing I've found. Doesn't seem to like Lemmy though: https://github.com/jointakahe/takahe/issues/588 https://github.com/jointakahe/takahe/issues/588
- Tarq0n 3y agoLooks like it's being worked on, so that's great.
- Macha 3y ago> Running your own instance seems to be the only way to avoid this The problem with this is that running your own instance is also seen as inherently suspicious by the same communities, see the comments about Pleroma by the admins of many medium size instances - because it's easy to set up it's often set up by people avoiding bans, but they miss that easy to set up is a factor that helps everyone.
- ticoombs 3y agoI'm running reddthat.com if you want a general instance that is federating with every instance :)
- jghn 3y ago
- SoftTalker 3y agoWhat is the practical effect on the user of an instance being "defederated?" People compare these federated social platforms to email, as there are many email providers and they can all exchange mail with each other. But there's no concept of being "defederated" in email. Or is there? I just don't understand the term.
- 0xffff2 3y agoThere is, it's just not talked about much. It is incredibly hard to run your own email server today because even if you follow all of the rules the big players will often refuse to accept your emails (i.e. defederate your email server).
- School-Cotton 3y agoThat’s a very persistent myth. I run my own email server and my mail gets delivered fine. There are a few things you need to do, yes, but it’s not “incredibly hard”.
- josephcsible 3y agoIt's not that doing the list of things is hard. It's that even if you do everything correctly, sometimes your mail will get dropped anyway for no explicable reason.
- jefftk 3y agoDefederation in email would be a.example putting in a block where you can't receive email from users on b.example. With email this pretty much only happens because of spamming, so it would be very surprising for, say, Hotmail to block Gmail.
- hombre_fatal 3y agoWhat I don't get is that this seems like something you would want to do for yourself as a user, not something you'd want your instance/server admin doing due to whatever drama of the week is going on.
- shafyy 3y agoI've signed up with geddit.social. It's run by stux, who also runs mstdn.social for Mastodon and I think he does a great job there.
- rcarmo 3y agoThey defederated mastodon.art(?) recently and then te-enabled it, and the drama of (thousands?) of broken follows is still playing out on my timeline. I have no way to ascertain who is “right”, but am worried about guardrails and processes to prevent single individuals from doing (or triggering) the same…
- irdc 3y ago> What instances are people here using? I’m one of many to run my own instance, letting me be in control of who I federate with (though there’s of course the risk of being defederated myself). It’s not for the faint-hearted, but doable, and doesn’t require much in the way of hardware (for me, a Raspberry Pi CM4 with 8GB of memory). I’d be willing to answer any questions people here might have.
- FlyingSnake 3y agoI am also interested in self hosting my own lemmy instance just for myself and my close friends. Can you share the details of your setup? Do you host your RasPi at home? > risk of being defederated I was not aware of this risk. How does this defederation work?
- stinkytaco 3y agoAn instance can block another instance from federating with it. So if I'm on instance "b" and it defederates instance "a", I can no longer see any of instance "a"'s communities or comments.
- irdc 3y ago> Can you share the details of your setup? I’m running OpenBSD 7.3 and manually compiled Lemmy 0.17.4 from git (I plan to eventually submit it as a port). I’m running lemmy-server and lemmy-ui behind relayd to ensure both are accessible (this is a bit finicky, refer to the nginx config in the official Docker container to see how everything needs to be forwarded to make federation work). Lemmy-server (the backend) is a single Rust binary and lemmy-ui (the frontend) is a single-page web application whose server side runs under NodeJS. The PostgreSQL instance that holds the data runs on the same Pi. I’ve not yet installed pict-rs (which is what Lemmy uses to host images). Rust, PostgreSQL and NodeJS are all from OpenBSD’s ports. I admit that this isn’t for everybody, so most will want to run the official Docker container. > Do you host your RasPi at home? Yeah, it’s in a closet at home. With Lemmy running it’s still perfectly usable for the kind of hobbyist development I otherwise use it for (I may eventually want to switch to a dedicated server). > How does this defederation work? Any one instance is totally free to block anyone else. Plus I’m guessing that eventually, as the Fediverse grows, smaller nodes are going to be blocked entirely to keep spam under control.
- rglullis 3y agoI've created and I'm keeping https://communick.news https://communick.news open for registration for the time being, but the creation of communities will be only for admins.
- 8organicbits 3y agoI'm on Beehaw, and I like the way the defederation was handled. Here's the latest from them: https://beehaw.org/post/594843 https://beehaw.org/post/594843 You can see some positive comments from users about the change and a transparent road map for re-federating. To put it another way, would you want to join an instance that isn't trying (or is failing to) contain harassment and other forms of bad actors? That's the challenge the de-fed is addressing: https://beehaw.org/post/567170 https://beehaw.org/post/567170
- jorvi 3y ago> harassment Harassment is such a vague term and has been stretched out to cover such a huge swathe that it can basically used to police almost anything.
- 8organicbits 3y agoAgreed. This is a strength of federation. Pick an instance that defines the term the same way you do. Communities with strong usage guidelines, like HN, can feel very safe to use.
- jorvi 3y agoI actually dislike the moderation here, in some instances it is extremely biased. I can remember an example of a post and discussion around tech, feminism, and how much of society has looped around to benefit women, and any comment that wasn’t overly positive on feminism immediately got detached from the post for “being inciting”. After requested clarification, it was explained that this was done because it is a contentious topic that has high likelihood of getting heated, but moderation was completely blind to how allowing only one visible perspective on an issue completely distorts how a community’s stance at large on that issue is perceived. HN is more of a case of “least worst” rather than “best”, for me.
- epcoa 3y ago> Pick an instance that defines the term the same way you do. And this is why the idea of the fediverse (outside of a content blind common carrier type scenario) is DOA. Once you get outside spam and widely illegal shit, defining the "terms the same way you do" has nearly as many possibilities as users, and the overlap of that Venn diagram does not exist - so the natural evolution is just a bunch of tiny instances none of which want to federate with another. The only purpose these new fediverse systems seem to have is for disjoint communities to increase availability - in one of the clumsiest ways possible and at the wrong level of abstraction.
- MSFT_Edging 3y agoBeehaw is a bit dramatic. I'm part of one of the most active lemmy instances, It only just brought in upstream lemmy as it forked 2 years ago when the community was created, because lemmy wasn't ready. Beehaw has some weird ideas about harassment and hate speech. Essentially civility and concern-troll like behavior cranked up to the extreme. The instance I'm on is a bit rowdy but has a tight culture and something like 600 average users online at once, 20kish accounts, and a very active banhammer to boot. We take things like transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc very seriously. The mods have zero patience for wreckers and "debate me" types. As a result, we find historical figures such as John Brown very admirable and hold strong opinions on what should happen to slaveholders and their ilk. Beehaw doesn't seem to like that.
- ted_bunny 3y agoBeehaw sound like the pseudo-socialist crybullies who wreck every Left space they're let into, in my experience.
- MSFT_Edging 3y agobingobango
- less_less 3y agoWhich instance is that, if you don't mind my asking?
- n6h6 3y agoI am also curious. The main reason I haven't even tried figuring Lemmy out is because I figured it'd be exclusively full of "free speech" people, like other Reddit alternatives.
- Anon_Forever 3y agoLemmy has/had the other extreme where it was full of "Gen Zedong" people.
- VikingCoder 3y agoIf the Lemmy fediverse is so fragmented... Then shouldn't people like us run our own instances, which then just act like an aggregator and wrapper around our single user account? Or am I federating TOO MUCH in a way that's hard to explain to new people? Because in my head... Each subreddit/community maps almost perfectly to 1 instance, and each technically savvy user also maps almost perfectly to 1 instance. That feels right to me... So why would that be stupid? Genuinely curious and open to being corrected.
- pbmonster 3y ago> each technically savvy user also maps almost perfectly to 1 instance Today, nothing speaks against that. But if this proliferates, I'm predicting white lists to become more common on "sensitive" instances like Beehaw. It's just like Email today. Sure you can run your own Email server. But expect to sometimes end up in the spam folder of users with Gmail accounts. You can thank the spammers for that, and the trolls if that ever becomes common on Lemmy.
- 0xffff2 3y agoYou're basically right. The devs have explicitly said that the ideal is for every user to run their own instance.that said, while it's not hard to run an instance it's well beyond the level of effort most people are ever going to spend.
- nobody9999 3y ago>while it's not hard to run an instance it's well beyond the level of effort most people are ever going to spend. This. And it's not just lemmy either. Mastodon, pixelfed, diaspora and other fediverse-capable platforms are a pain in the ass to set up and self host. As a technical guy, I've set up most of these and while it's certainly possible to do, the hoi polloi don't have the knowledge/skills to do so and aren't interested in gaining such skills. RPM/DEB/etc. packages with set up scripts and windows installers would make a world of difference, but instead we have 'curl <url> |bash' and docker containers. While I'm not really too upset about the great unwashed being able to access the Fediverse (I wouldn't mind if it were mostly the technically minded, but I can just choose who to follow to get that), the current situation does little to improve the network effects of the Fediverse. IMHO, the situation is similar to a scenario posited in another discussion[0] about devops, where developers throw their code "over the wall" to let the ops folks handle deployment/operations. Except the "ops" folks in this case are mostly non-technical end users. With the results being pretty much what you'd might expect. And more's the pity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36354049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36354049
- shrikant 3y agoI'm on Feddit UK (https://feddit.uk/ https://feddit.uk/) as I realised that my primary use of Reddit was for the UK-based communities (DIY UK, UKPersonalFinance, Ask UK, UK Politics, Casual UK etc.) It feels a bit sparse at the moment, but I'm hoping it grows steadily and not too much! :)
- johnchristopher 3y agoI think the easiest way to deal with that is to register a new handle directly through the instance hosting the community you want to participate into. I think participating in the community beats federation and having one handle for every instance. I don't think users care about federation.
- willis936 3y agoYou will not be let into Beehaw with this attitude, an attitude of "I'm a normal person with no specific intentions", or with any stated intention other than what is prescribed.