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> I don’t think any CEO can be moral if your primary obligation is “shareholder value”. I am really glad I am starting to see a lot more posts here on HN with

> I don’t think any CEO can be moral if your primary obligation is “shareholder value”. I am really glad I am starting to see a lot more posts here on HN with regard to this fact. Capitalism is literally destroying everything and has proven itself not to be a viable system for long term sustainability and a healthy society and ecosystem. Some of the smartest people on the internet aggregate on HN and some have still not figured this out. Either because 1) They haven't taken the time to look into the n-order knock on effects that are produced by capitalism in it's current form, or 2) they are too interested in self-enrichment to make any changes to behavior for their own comfort and convenience. We should get of publicly traded corporations and Wall Street should disappear in my opinion. It is that publicly traded shareholder value that drives all the crimes against society/environment in this late stage. However, we are up against a severely selfish and entrenched minority with a ton of power who won't let that happen ... at the cost of everything.

prottog 3y ago
> Capitalism is literally destroying everything You can't give credit all the credit to capitalism. Communism destroyed what was the fourth-largest lake in the world, which was so big that it was called a "sea"[0]. > Some of the smartest people on the internet aggregate on HN and some have still not figured this out. Either because 1) They haven't taken the time to look into the n-order knock on effects that are produced by capitalism in it's current form, or 2) they are too interested in self-enrichment to make any changes to behavior for their own comfort and convenience. The age-old adage that anyone opposed to your viewpoint is either stupid or evil. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
- rajanaccros 3y ago
  > You can't give credit all the credit to capitalism. Communism destroyed what was the fourth-largest lake in the world, which was so big that it was called a "sea"[0]. The age-old adage that if it is not capitalism, it must be communism. > The age-old adage that anyone opposed to your viewpoint is either stupid or evil. Which one are you? Sure my take was reductionist, but you are using my critique to distract is disingenuous. You are trying to defend capitalism by saying that you are not stupid or evil. If I have missed an adjective to describe people who have not discovered this ruthless system of destruction what would it be? Ignorant? Willfully Ignorant?
  - brigandish 3y ago
    > Which one are you? I don't think HN is for you.
    - rajanaccros 3y ago
      A flippant dismissal deserves a flippant reply.
      - brigandish 3y ago
        Somewhere else, maybe. To think one's opponents are evil or stupid only reveals a lack of self-awareness, arrogance, and over-confidence. Just as the spoon cannot taste the soup, someone displaying those qualities will learn nothing here, and no one will learn anything from them except a bad example, hence why I think HN is not for someone like that. There's always Reddit.
        rajanaccros 3y ago
        > only reveals a lack of self-awareness, arrogance, and over-confidence Says one with the hubris to decide what is right for me.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Both state and capital can be bad. Of course.
Daz1 3y ago
Capitalism is the driving force behind everything you enjoy about your modern, comfortable life.
- XorNot 3y ago
  As much as I disagree with the OP, this is just as naive. What we enjoy about our modern lives in Western societies is a productive mixed-market economy. The "pure capitalism" argument is just as naive as to pretend it's failed with no redeeming features (which itself, is fallacious because the critics propose no alternative they care to describe - but pointing out a problem with the current system doesn't mean anything if you can't raise a reasonable alternative).
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    There are plenty of critics proposing alternatives I get a monthly magazine called Jacobin that is filled with bough criticisms and alternatives Trying to find people who aren’t either fundamentally greedy or barely hanging on is nearly impossible so it’s just mostly people exploiting each other. I am personally trying to build a cooperative that is mutually owned by employees, and it’s structurally really hard because the legal system doesn’t know anything about how to do that. The entire system is built on the assumption of profit maximization. You don’t go into a banking situation, without telling them the type of business, and the type of profit that you expect. so in every single aspect of attempting to do commerce in the United States, or worldwide today, the default functional system, which everybody uses, because there is no alternative system to use, makes it effectively impossible to do something else without totally building it yourself from scratch.
    - XorNot 3y ago
      > You don’t go into a banking situation, without telling them the type of business, and the type of profit that you expect. But that's because you're not just banking with someone, you're asking them for a loan. That money has a cost associated with it so the bank quite reasonably wants an indication you're able and likely to repay it. Waste is waste under any economic model: if the input costs in whatever form they take exceed outputs the endeavor isn't viable.

prottog 3y ago

> Capitalism is literally destroying everything You can't give credit all the credit to capitalism. Communism destroyed what was the fourth-largest lake in the world, which was so big that it was called a "sea"[0]. > Some of the smartest people on the internet aggregate on HN and some have still not figured this out. Either because 1) They haven't taken the time to look into the n-order knock on effects that are produced by capitalism in it's current form, or 2) they are too interested in self-enrichment to make any changes to behavior for their own comfort and convenience. The age-old adage that anyone opposed to your viewpoint is either stupid or evil. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea

rajanaccros 3y ago
> You can't give credit all the credit to capitalism. Communism destroyed what was the fourth-largest lake in the world, which was so big that it was called a "sea"[0]. The age-old adage that if it is not capitalism, it must be communism. > The age-old adage that anyone opposed to your viewpoint is either stupid or evil. Which one are you? Sure my take was reductionist, but you are using my critique to distract is disingenuous. You are trying to defend capitalism by saying that you are not stupid or evil. If I have missed an adjective to describe people who have not discovered this ruthless system of destruction what would it be? Ignorant? Willfully Ignorant?
- brigandish 3y ago
  > Which one are you? I don't think HN is for you.
  - rajanaccros 3y ago
    A flippant dismissal deserves a flippant reply.
    - brigandish 3y ago
      Somewhere else, maybe. To think one's opponents are evil or stupid only reveals a lack of self-awareness, arrogance, and over-confidence. Just as the spoon cannot taste the soup, someone displaying those qualities will learn nothing here, and no one will learn anything from them except a bad example, hence why I think HN is not for someone like that. There's always Reddit.
      - rajanaccros 3y ago
        > only reveals a lack of self-awareness, arrogance, and over-confidence Says one with the hubris to decide what is right for me.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
Both state and capital can be bad. Of course.

Daz1 3y ago

Capitalism is the driving force behind everything you enjoy about your modern, comfortable life.

XorNot 3y ago
As much as I disagree with the OP, this is just as naive. What we enjoy about our modern lives in Western societies is a productive mixed-market economy. The "pure capitalism" argument is just as naive as to pretend it's failed with no redeeming features (which itself, is fallacious because the critics propose no alternative they care to describe - but pointing out a problem with the current system doesn't mean anything if you can't raise a reasonable alternative).
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  There are plenty of critics proposing alternatives I get a monthly magazine called Jacobin that is filled with bough criticisms and alternatives Trying to find people who aren’t either fundamentally greedy or barely hanging on is nearly impossible so it’s just mostly people exploiting each other. I am personally trying to build a cooperative that is mutually owned by employees, and it’s structurally really hard because the legal system doesn’t know anything about how to do that. The entire system is built on the assumption of profit maximization. You don’t go into a banking situation, without telling them the type of business, and the type of profit that you expect. so in every single aspect of attempting to do commerce in the United States, or worldwide today, the default functional system, which everybody uses, because there is no alternative system to use, makes it effectively impossible to do something else without totally building it yourself from scratch.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    > You don’t go into a banking situation, without telling them the type of business, and the type of profit that you expect. But that's because you're not just banking with someone, you're asking them for a loan. That money has a cost associated with it so the bank quite reasonably wants an indication you're able and likely to repay it. Waste is waste under any economic model: if the input costs in whatever form they take exceed outputs the endeavor isn't viable.