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Same. I think bad management are people who got into management because it pays better, it is necessary for career advancement or social status. Those people d

Same. I think bad management are people who got into management because it pays better, it is necessary for career advancement or social status. Those people do management because that is what they have to do to get their personal goal, money, promotions, fame. Good managers are people who do it because they like it and they excel at it. Some might have started doing management for different reasons, but stayed because they discovered it to be their thing. That is the reason for that bimodal distribution and why it looks as it does. I think tons of jobs that pay very well, make you famous, etc. actually don't have a bell-curve-distribution for the same reasons.

thrashh 3y ago
What professions start with experienced people out of the bat? People just take what opportunities they can get or they choose to study some field hoping that they like it. And often, a few years in, they learn that they hate their job.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  There is a reason that many organizations have a leveling guidelines that you have to perform at the next level before getting promoted to it.
  - lucumo 3y ago
    I've found that that's mostly a fig leaf. It was the primary reason I left places. When I asked how to get the promotion and got that response, I got the promotion by moving to another company. And of course I performed well in the new role, because it never was about performance. It was about people not expecting juniors to grow so quickly to medior, or about not having a free "promotion slot" this year, or it's just not a priority, or other organizational stuff.
    - ZephyrBlu 3y ago
      For junior/mid level developers backwards-facing levelling doesn't really matter. For senior it matters more, and for staff/manager it matters a lot more. There are usually organizational constraints like you mention, but that doesn't preclude there being a reason for backwards-facing levelling.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Junior to mid it doesn’t matter. A “senior” and above based on the leveling guidelines at every tech company that I’m aware of is not based on whether you “code well” or even how knowledgeable you are. It’s based on “scope” and “impact”.
      - lucumo 3y ago
        As a medior, I've led a team of seniors on a mission critical project for several years, after which my manager said "maybe we should consider promoting you in another year or so". It's not scope and impact either.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        And then it’s time to change jobs now that you can answer soft skill questions in STAR format that shows “scope” and “impact”. But a new job is not going to give you a senior position if you haven’t already demonstrated it at your previous job. Yes, I realize titles are meaningless outside of major tech companies with real leveling guidelines. I worked at your standard enterprise/Corp dev jobs all of my career until 2020.
        lucumo 3y ago
        Well, yes. That was my point. When companies say they want you to perform at the next level before promoting you, it's just something to say that's semi-friendly and still means no. Believe the no, don't believe the reason.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        What I’m saying is that in either case, you have to perform at the next level to get the job. A: Perform at the next level, go through the internal promo process and get promoted. B: if you want to change jobs and get a job at the next level, you still have to work at the next level at your current job so you can convince your potential employer that you’re capable. In other words, there is no way of getting promoted reliably without operating at that next level first.

thrashh 3y ago

What professions start with experienced people out of the bat? People just take what opportunities they can get or they choose to study some field hoping that they like it. And often, a few years in, they learn that they hate their job.

scarface_74 3y ago
There is a reason that many organizations have a leveling guidelines that you have to perform at the next level before getting promoted to it.
- lucumo 3y ago
  I've found that that's mostly a fig leaf. It was the primary reason I left places. When I asked how to get the promotion and got that response, I got the promotion by moving to another company. And of course I performed well in the new role, because it never was about performance. It was about people not expecting juniors to grow so quickly to medior, or about not having a free "promotion slot" this year, or it's just not a priority, or other organizational stuff.
  - ZephyrBlu 3y ago
    For junior/mid level developers backwards-facing levelling doesn't really matter. For senior it matters more, and for staff/manager it matters a lot more. There are usually organizational constraints like you mention, but that doesn't preclude there being a reason for backwards-facing levelling.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Junior to mid it doesn’t matter. A “senior” and above based on the leveling guidelines at every tech company that I’m aware of is not based on whether you “code well” or even how knowledgeable you are. It’s based on “scope” and “impact”.
    - lucumo 3y ago
      As a medior, I've led a team of seniors on a mission critical project for several years, after which my manager said "maybe we should consider promoting you in another year or so". It's not scope and impact either.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        And then it’s time to change jobs now that you can answer soft skill questions in STAR format that shows “scope” and “impact”. But a new job is not going to give you a senior position if you haven’t already demonstrated it at your previous job. Yes, I realize titles are meaningless outside of major tech companies with real leveling guidelines. I worked at your standard enterprise/Corp dev jobs all of my career until 2020.
        lucumo 3y ago
        Well, yes. That was my point. When companies say they want you to perform at the next level before promoting you, it's just something to say that's semi-friendly and still means no. Believe the no, don't believe the reason.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        What I’m saying is that in either case, you have to perform at the next level to get the job. A: Perform at the next level, go through the internal promo process and get promoted. B: if you want to change jobs and get a job at the next level, you still have to work at the next level at your current job so you can convince your potential employer that you’re capable. In other words, there is no way of getting promoted reliably without operating at that next level first.