4 ms·

Is there anything wrong with Mullvad?

NavinF 3y ago
They don't support port forwarding which eliminates the main use cases for VPNs: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-f...
- verandaguy 3y ago
  It eliminates your main use cases for VPNs (and while it's a shame that the feature is being pulled, port forwarding has always been ripe with abuse). I formerly worked in the consumer VPN space (an older, but once quite big player), and use cases go from content access (including everything from getting US Netflix from Germany, to sidestepping national firewalls), to general-purpose paranoia about IP logging by websites. There are also lots of cases that get marketed a bit too liberally by companies like Nord, Express, and the hydra that is Kape, like that VPNs can add meaningful security to submitting payment information online; this is despite the fact that it's harder than ever to MITM payment sites. It's generally agreed that the state of public Wi-Fi combined with evolving web standards and sky-high HTTPS adoption makes VPNs largely, though definitely not completely obsolete for protecting yourself against someone sniffing traffic at Starbucks. Having said all that: if you need a VPN and a lack of port-forwarding isn't a dealbreaker, I wholeheartedly recommend Mullvad. My former company never worked with them directly but our team had immense respect for their integrity, ethics, and approach to developing a quality product.
cookiengineer 3y ago
Honestly it's hard to tell, but Mullvard seems to be one of the last options. The problem I have with all the "checks" that press foundations do is that none of them seem to know what they're talking about in regards to what tech is trustworthy and audited, and what is not. I found a nice article about it, skimmed through it and seems to be true and reflect my own research that I did for my cyber defense network [1] [1] https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-23-companies/ https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-2...
- flir 3y ago
  If I was a TLA, I'd be spinning up one fake VPN company a month. I've never understood why anyone trusts them.
- Moru 3y ago
  Very funny, I get a popup selling NordVPN several times while on that site (using adblocker). Article written by the owner of another VPN company.
rocho 3y ago
They're the best. They don't even ask for personal information when creating an account (heck, they don't ask for anything at all) and you can pay with crypto or cash. They use Wireguard and their desktop and mobile apps are very good. They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata." Just your personal IP, which is via your provider very tied to your person.
  - lionkor 3y ago
    Thats assuming you are using your home IP, and that youre the only one using that IP, and that they are tracking your metadata (whcih there is no proof of)
    - rocho 3y ago
      That's true. But I don't do anything illegal, I mainly want to preserve my privacy and avoid the ISP logging all the domains I visit.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      If I don't care, that my IP gets exposed, than I would not use a VPN in the first place. (In many places it can trivially linked to your real ID, if there is a court order) Unless the use case is circumventing region barriers.
      - jeltz 3y ago
        Mullvad claims to not log IPs so they cannot hand out anything via a court order and at least once a court order has turned up blank [1]. It is possible that CIA or some other intelligence agency has infiltrated Mullvad and logs them but that is nothing that will ever be used in a normal court case. They will only risk revealing their hand if you are some major crime boss, a spy or a terrorist. If you are just a file sharer or normal low level criminal I doubt the CIA (or whoever may have infiltrated Mullvad) would give anyone your IP. 1. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-tjansten-mullvad-i-goteborg https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-...
lionkor 3y ago
I feel like, inherently, Mullvad is crazy secure. They never ask for email, phone number, name, or any payment details, and the only identifying information (username and password) are replaced by a number they generate for you. And then it gives you a wireguard config you can use with whatever client you trust.
rmdes 3y ago
The best. Using it for years.
evertedsphere 3y ago
Way too many sites block or captcha-gate Mullvad IPs in my experience.

They don't support port forwarding which eliminates the main use cases for VPNs: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-f...

verandaguy 3y ago
It eliminates your main use cases for VPNs (and while it's a shame that the feature is being pulled, port forwarding has always been ripe with abuse). I formerly worked in the consumer VPN space (an older, but once quite big player), and use cases go from content access (including everything from getting US Netflix from Germany, to sidestepping national firewalls), to general-purpose paranoia about IP logging by websites. There are also lots of cases that get marketed a bit too liberally by companies like Nord, Express, and the hydra that is Kape, like that VPNs can add meaningful security to submitting payment information online; this is despite the fact that it's harder than ever to MITM payment sites. It's generally agreed that the state of public Wi-Fi combined with evolving web standards and sky-high HTTPS adoption makes VPNs largely, though definitely not completely obsolete for protecting yourself against someone sniffing traffic at Starbucks. Having said all that: if you need a VPN and a lack of port-forwarding isn't a dealbreaker, I wholeheartedly recommend Mullvad. My former company never worked with them directly but our team had immense respect for their integrity, ethics, and approach to developing a quality product.

cookiengineer 3y ago

Honestly it's hard to tell, but Mullvard seems to be one of the last options. The problem I have with all the "checks" that press foundations do is that none of them seem to know what they're talking about in regards to what tech is trustworthy and audited, and what is not. I found a nice article about it, skimmed through it and seems to be true and reflect my own research that I did for my cyber defense network [1] [1] https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-23-companies/ https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-2...

flir 3y ago
If I was a TLA, I'd be spinning up one fake VPN company a month. I've never understood why anyone trusts them.
Moru 3y ago
Very funny, I get a popup selling NordVPN several times while on that site (using adblocker). Article written by the owner of another VPN company.

rocho 3y ago

They're the best. They don't even ask for personal information when creating an account (heck, they don't ask for anything at all) and you can pay with crypto or cash. They use Wireguard and their desktop and mobile apps are very good. They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata.

hutzlibu 3y ago
"They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata." Just your personal IP, which is via your provider very tied to your person.
- lionkor 3y ago
  Thats assuming you are using your home IP, and that youre the only one using that IP, and that they are tracking your metadata (whcih there is no proof of)
  - rocho 3y ago
    That's true. But I don't do anything illegal, I mainly want to preserve my privacy and avoid the ISP logging all the domains I visit.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    If I don't care, that my IP gets exposed, than I would not use a VPN in the first place. (In many places it can trivially linked to your real ID, if there is a court order) Unless the use case is circumventing region barriers.
    - jeltz 3y ago
      Mullvad claims to not log IPs so they cannot hand out anything via a court order and at least once a court order has turned up blank [1]. It is possible that CIA or some other intelligence agency has infiltrated Mullvad and logs them but that is nothing that will ever be used in a normal court case. They will only risk revealing their hand if you are some major crime boss, a spy or a terrorist. If you are just a file sharer or normal low level criminal I doubt the CIA (or whoever may have infiltrated Mullvad) would give anyone your IP. 1. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-tjansten-mullvad-i-goteborg https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-...

lionkor 3y ago

I feel like, inherently, Mullvad is crazy secure. They never ask for email, phone number, name, or any payment details, and the only identifying information (username and password) are replaced by a number they generate for you. And then it gives you a wireguard config you can use with whatever client you trust.

rmdes 3y ago

The best. Using it for years.

evertedsphere 3y ago

Way too many sites block or captcha-gate Mullvad IPs in my experience.