5 ms·

Once you dig into how the Kape Technologies holding is linked to the same people of the NSO Group scandals, well, good luck finding a VPN that didn't sell out t

Once you dig into how the Kape Technologies holding is linked to the same people of the NSO Group scandals, well, good luck finding a VPN that didn't sell out their customers.

littlestymaar 3y ago
Is there anything wrong with Mullvad?
- NavinF 3y ago
  They don't support port forwarding which eliminates the main use cases for VPNs: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-f...
  - verandaguy 3y ago
    It eliminates your main use cases for VPNs (and while it's a shame that the feature is being pulled, port forwarding has always been ripe with abuse). I formerly worked in the consumer VPN space (an older, but once quite big player), and use cases go from content access (including everything from getting US Netflix from Germany, to sidestepping national firewalls), to general-purpose paranoia about IP logging by websites. There are also lots of cases that get marketed a bit too liberally by companies like Nord, Express, and the hydra that is Kape, like that VPNs can add meaningful security to submitting payment information online; this is despite the fact that it's harder than ever to MITM payment sites. It's generally agreed that the state of public Wi-Fi combined with evolving web standards and sky-high HTTPS adoption makes VPNs largely, though definitely not completely obsolete for protecting yourself against someone sniffing traffic at Starbucks. Having said all that: if you need a VPN and a lack of port-forwarding isn't a dealbreaker, I wholeheartedly recommend Mullvad. My former company never worked with them directly but our team had immense respect for their integrity, ethics, and approach to developing a quality product.
- cookiengineer 3y ago
  Honestly it's hard to tell, but Mullvard seems to be one of the last options. The problem I have with all the "checks" that press foundations do is that none of them seem to know what they're talking about in regards to what tech is trustworthy and audited, and what is not. I found a nice article about it, skimmed through it and seems to be true and reflect my own research that I did for my cyber defense network [1] [1] https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-23-companies/ https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-2...
  - flir 3y ago
    If I was a TLA, I'd be spinning up one fake VPN company a month. I've never understood why anyone trusts them.
  - Moru 3y ago
    Very funny, I get a popup selling NordVPN several times while on that site (using adblocker). Article written by the owner of another VPN company.
- rocho 3y ago
  They're the best. They don't even ask for personal information when creating an account (heck, they don't ask for anything at all) and you can pay with crypto or cash. They use Wireguard and their desktop and mobile apps are very good. They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata." Just your personal IP, which is via your provider very tied to your person.
    - lionkor 3y ago
      Thats assuming you are using your home IP, and that youre the only one using that IP, and that they are tracking your metadata (whcih there is no proof of)
      - rocho 3y ago
        That's true. But I don't do anything illegal, I mainly want to preserve my privacy and avoid the ISP logging all the domains I visit.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        If I don't care, that my IP gets exposed, than I would not use a VPN in the first place. (In many places it can trivially linked to your real ID, if there is a court order) Unless the use case is circumventing region barriers.
        jeltz 3y ago
        Mullvad claims to not log IPs so they cannot hand out anything via a court order and at least once a court order has turned up blank [1]. It is possible that CIA or some other intelligence agency has infiltrated Mullvad and logs them but that is nothing that will ever be used in a normal court case. They will only risk revealing their hand if you are some major crime boss, a spy or a terrorist. If you are just a file sharer or normal low level criminal I doubt the CIA (or whoever may have infiltrated Mullvad) would give anyone your IP. 1. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-tjansten-mullvad-i-goteborg https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-...
- lionkor 3y ago
  I feel like, inherently, Mullvad is crazy secure. They never ask for email, phone number, name, or any payment details, and the only identifying information (username and password) are replaced by a number they generate for you. And then it gives you a wireguard config you can use with whatever client you trust.
- rmdes 3y ago
  The best. Using it for years.
- evertedsphere 3y ago
  Way too many sites block or captcha-gate Mullvad IPs in my experience.
whoopdedo 3y ago
Was renewing a domain when I noticed my registrar offered VPN service but I couldn't find any substantial information about how it works other than supporting Wireguard and claim not to keep logs. There wasn't even a TOS for me to study before signing up.
rectang 3y ago
I’m not a serious user, but I subscribe to Mozilla’s VPN service. Not free but I believe in their mission and feel good about sending a few bux their way.
- ok_computer 3y ago
  Same, I made the poor judgement of subscription to Nord vpn years ago that I ended up not really using because many streaming sites blocked the vpn ips. Then I hear of the behavior of the company claiming they don’t take logs but they definitely take browsing logs. I felt like I was duped into a 2 or 3 year subscription upfront and didn’t really understand the product space or how to evaluate the different companies. Like are there any objective news sources to rank these services and what internet comments to trust at face value? I listened to a youtube ad in the first place, so I’m unsure what I was expecting. Mozilla gained good will over the years and I like the browser. The vpn is fairly seamless and permissive for number of devices. I understand it is a wrapper on Mullvad and we are paying a healthy overhead. Still, it is worth it because I’d trust that if the vpn service provider behaves in bad faith that Mozilla will be able to quickly respond and adopt another provider. Whereas if it were up to me I may hear of it years later and not necessarily know what service to adopt instead. My use is merely hoping to reduce tracking based on ip. I wouldn’t trust it to be subpoena proof. I’m not into pirating music anyway.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "Mozilla gained good will over the years" Actually, they rather lost a lot over the last years, with various shady things, like tracking for advertisement enabled from the browser by default (called studys). So sadly, I also would not trust them as a VPN. Way more than some random VPN service, sure, but not completely. But I also do not know of a better alternative.
    - Ugohcet 3y ago
      At that point, I believe Mullvad (who is actually behind Mozilla VPN service) is more trustworthy than Mozilla themselves. And if that is true, why don't just use Mullvad directly?
nucatus 3y ago
I use ProtonVPN and I guess they aren't that stupid to mess up the future of their company by abusing the customers of the service that started the company in the first place. I guess other VPN services offered by prestigious companies, like BitDefender are quite safe from this standpoint. Yes, the free VPN services have always a large risk associated with.
- RektBoy 3y ago
  Proton is operated by US agencies, CIA did that in the past with cypher machines.
  - iakov 3y ago
    This is a very bold claim. Do you have reliable sources to back it?
    - cookiengineer 3y ago
      He's probably talking about Crypto AG [1] Not sure about the links to Proton though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
      - bartbutler 3y ago
        There aren't any links between Proton and Crypto AG, none at all.
  - The_SamminAter 3y ago
    Do you have any sources/links?
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    It's not necessarily a problem to use a service, (Signal?), which is funded by an intelligence agency. It can serve their purposes while serving yours too. If the service gets wide enough adoption, then the huge volume of traffic becomes a perfect place to hide their own intelligence activity.

Once you dig into how the Kape Technologies holding is linked to the same people of the NSO Group scandals, well, good luck finding a VPN that didn't sell out their customers.

littlestymaar 3y ago

Is there anything wrong with Mullvad?

NavinF 3y ago
They don't support port forwarding which eliminates the main use cases for VPNs: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-f...
- verandaguy 3y ago
  It eliminates your main use cases for VPNs (and while it's a shame that the feature is being pulled, port forwarding has always been ripe with abuse). I formerly worked in the consumer VPN space (an older, but once quite big player), and use cases go from content access (including everything from getting US Netflix from Germany, to sidestepping national firewalls), to general-purpose paranoia about IP logging by websites. There are also lots of cases that get marketed a bit too liberally by companies like Nord, Express, and the hydra that is Kape, like that VPNs can add meaningful security to submitting payment information online; this is despite the fact that it's harder than ever to MITM payment sites. It's generally agreed that the state of public Wi-Fi combined with evolving web standards and sky-high HTTPS adoption makes VPNs largely, though definitely not completely obsolete for protecting yourself against someone sniffing traffic at Starbucks. Having said all that: if you need a VPN and a lack of port-forwarding isn't a dealbreaker, I wholeheartedly recommend Mullvad. My former company never worked with them directly but our team had immense respect for their integrity, ethics, and approach to developing a quality product.
cookiengineer 3y ago
Honestly it's hard to tell, but Mullvard seems to be one of the last options. The problem I have with all the "checks" that press foundations do is that none of them seem to know what they're talking about in regards to what tech is trustworthy and audited, and what is not. I found a nice article about it, skimmed through it and seems to be true and reflect my own research that I did for my cyber defense network [1] [1] https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-23-companies/ https://vpnpro.com/blog/hidden-vpn-owners-unveiled-97-vpns-2...
- flir 3y ago
  If I was a TLA, I'd be spinning up one fake VPN company a month. I've never understood why anyone trusts them.
- Moru 3y ago
  Very funny, I get a popup selling NordVPN several times while on that site (using adblocker). Article written by the owner of another VPN company.
rocho 3y ago
They're the best. They don't even ask for personal information when creating an account (heck, they don't ask for anything at all) and you can pay with crypto or cash. They use Wireguard and their desktop and mobile apps are very good. They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "They shouldn't keep logs but even if they did there's no personal information metadata." Just your personal IP, which is via your provider very tied to your person.
  - lionkor 3y ago
    Thats assuming you are using your home IP, and that youre the only one using that IP, and that they are tracking your metadata (whcih there is no proof of)
    - rocho 3y ago
      That's true. But I don't do anything illegal, I mainly want to preserve my privacy and avoid the ISP logging all the domains I visit.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      If I don't care, that my IP gets exposed, than I would not use a VPN in the first place. (In many places it can trivially linked to your real ID, if there is a court order) Unless the use case is circumventing region barriers.
      - jeltz 3y ago
        Mullvad claims to not log IPs so they cannot hand out anything via a court order and at least once a court order has turned up blank [1]. It is possible that CIA or some other intelligence agency has infiltrated Mullvad and logs them but that is nothing that will ever be used in a normal court case. They will only risk revealing their hand if you are some major crime boss, a spy or a terrorist. If you are just a file sharer or normal low level criminal I doubt the CIA (or whoever may have infiltrated Mullvad) would give anyone your IP. 1. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-tjansten-mullvad-i-goteborg https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/husrannsakan-mot-vpn-...
lionkor 3y ago
I feel like, inherently, Mullvad is crazy secure. They never ask for email, phone number, name, or any payment details, and the only identifying information (username and password) are replaced by a number they generate for you. And then it gives you a wireguard config you can use with whatever client you trust.
rmdes 3y ago
The best. Using it for years.
evertedsphere 3y ago
Way too many sites block or captcha-gate Mullvad IPs in my experience.

whoopdedo 3y ago

Was renewing a domain when I noticed my registrar offered VPN service but I couldn't find any substantial information about how it works other than supporting Wireguard and claim not to keep logs. There wasn't even a TOS for me to study before signing up.

rectang 3y ago

I’m not a serious user, but I subscribe to Mozilla’s VPN service. Not free but I believe in their mission and feel good about sending a few bux their way.

ok_computer 3y ago
Same, I made the poor judgement of subscription to Nord vpn years ago that I ended up not really using because many streaming sites blocked the vpn ips. Then I hear of the behavior of the company claiming they don’t take logs but they definitely take browsing logs. I felt like I was duped into a 2 or 3 year subscription upfront and didn’t really understand the product space or how to evaluate the different companies. Like are there any objective news sources to rank these services and what internet comments to trust at face value? I listened to a youtube ad in the first place, so I’m unsure what I was expecting. Mozilla gained good will over the years and I like the browser. The vpn is fairly seamless and permissive for number of devices. I understand it is a wrapper on Mullvad and we are paying a healthy overhead. Still, it is worth it because I’d trust that if the vpn service provider behaves in bad faith that Mozilla will be able to quickly respond and adopt another provider. Whereas if it were up to me I may hear of it years later and not necessarily know what service to adopt instead. My use is merely hoping to reduce tracking based on ip. I wouldn’t trust it to be subpoena proof. I’m not into pirating music anyway.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "Mozilla gained good will over the years" Actually, they rather lost a lot over the last years, with various shady things, like tracking for advertisement enabled from the browser by default (called studys). So sadly, I also would not trust them as a VPN. Way more than some random VPN service, sure, but not completely. But I also do not know of a better alternative.
  - Ugohcet 3y ago
    At that point, I believe Mullvad (who is actually behind Mozilla VPN service) is more trustworthy than Mozilla themselves. And if that is true, why don't just use Mullvad directly?

nucatus 3y ago

I use ProtonVPN and I guess they aren't that stupid to mess up the future of their company by abusing the customers of the service that started the company in the first place. I guess other VPN services offered by prestigious companies, like BitDefender are quite safe from this standpoint. Yes, the free VPN services have always a large risk associated with.

RektBoy 3y ago
Proton is operated by US agencies, CIA did that in the past with cypher machines.
- iakov 3y ago
  This is a very bold claim. Do you have reliable sources to back it?
  - cookiengineer 3y ago
    He's probably talking about Crypto AG [1] Not sure about the links to Proton though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
    - bartbutler 3y ago
      There aren't any links between Proton and Crypto AG, none at all.
- The_SamminAter 3y ago
  Do you have any sources/links?
- nerdbert 3y ago
  It's not necessarily a problem to use a service, (Signal?), which is funded by an intelligence agency. It can serve their purposes while serving yours too. If the service gets wide enough adoption, then the huge volume of traffic becomes a perfect place to hide their own intelligence activity.