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Spanglish is not necessarily using English words in Spanish or vice/versa. It's using "troca" ("trucka"?) instead of "camioneta" when referring to "truck". An

Spanglish is not necessarily using English words in Spanish or vice/versa. It's using "troca" ("trucka"?) instead of "camioneta" when referring to "truck". Another example is "parkear" instead of "estacionar" when referring to "parking". This is in the case of the Mexican dialect of Spanglish.

idlewords 3y ago
It's extremely common in every situation like this, the grammar of the original language stays but the lexicon (nouns especially) gets rapidly switched out with borrowings and calques from the surrounding language.
- rrradical 3y ago
  Oh interesting. Japanese is like this. Many years ago it absorbed Chinese nouns, but more recently it has absorbed many English nouns. Some Americans learning Japanese will regret this last part- wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that means.
  - fknorangesite 3y ago
    > Japanese is like this. Every language is like this.
    - semi-extrinsic 3y ago
      Except Icelandic.
      - arnsholt 3y ago
        Oh, even Icelandic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk
    - eru 3y ago
      Different languages embrace this to different degrees.
      - WorldMaker 3y ago
        With modern French the interesting one trying to fight this sort of natural evolution by defering a lot of language changes to their Academy and intentionally replacing calques and borrowings with "corrected" versions. Their Academy isn't always successful in getting French speakers to conform to their "corrected" words, but it is fascinating that they still try.
        biggoodwolf 3y ago
        Similar happens in Spanish, I think just the attempt is valuable in and of itself, if for no other purpose that asking the question, "can we do better?". Otherwise one ends with English and its lowest-common denominator antics
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Japanese is fascinating because they have an different alphabet symbolism for imported words. It has the same phonetics as native Japanese, but the written language distinguishes the origin.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      This is actually not entirely correct. Japanese has three forms of writing: Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana. Kanji, which stands for "Han Language/Characters", was imported from China; "Kan" is the Japanese reading of "Han". It's used more or less as when it was imported and is largely interchangable with Traditional Chinese. Hiragana originated as a simplification of cursive Kanji, because people both today and from a few millenia ago find Kanji too complicated to deal with at times. Its name means "Simplified Kana", in contrast to Kanji. Hiragana is used to accent Kanji and connect sentences together for better flow and comprehension (known as Okurigana), can be used by itself (sometimes in place of Kanji, especially for childrens writing), and is sometimes used to convey an image of cuteness ("kawaii") and femininity due to its curvy styling. Pronunciation guides for Kanji (known as Furigana), if present, are also written with Hiragana. Katakana similarly originated as a simplification of Kanji, though its styling is more straight than Hiragana to enable easier writing with instruments besides brushes or pens on paper (eg: engraving in wood or stone). Its name means "Partial Kana", signifying that it's derived from the parts of Kanji characters. Katakana is used today to write foreign words, scientific names (including Japanese ones), and certain Japanese names such as those of businesses. It's also used to give emphasis, like how bold or italic styling or all caps is used in English. In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Both Hiragana and Katakana have respective characters in their alphabets and phonetically can be interchanged character for character. The common modern day understanding that Katakana "is for foreign words" is merely just one of its use cases.
      - sbierwagen 3y ago
        >In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Such as in the printed copy of Emperor Hirohito's speech announcing the surrender of Japan in 1945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript...
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    > wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that I have wished for consistency in every language I have ever learned or tried to learn, which I suspect is what "pure" would mean in this context. Imported words often use different roots and conjugate inconsistently, which makes it harder to remember and use them. (Though of course, as sibling comments point out, any living language will import from other languages; the only escape is in conlangs... but if you actually used those they'd get the same difficulty:])
  - detourdog 3y ago
    In Israel a Briefcase was referred to as a James Bond.
muststopmyths 3y ago
parqueo and parquear are used widely in Central and South America so I am not sure it's fair to call them Spanglish. Provided the term is meant to apply to the Spanish spoken by immigrants and/or border area residents in the US.
- riffraff 3y ago
  Parcheggio and parcheggiare are used in Italian too, I'm pretty sure they're not derived from English, but from "parco" (park), which has Indo-European roots.
ftyers 3y ago
In Spain at least there is a difference between estacionar (to stop with the engine running) and aparcar (to stop and leave). In Mexico the two things are more or less merged, and if you say estacionar or parquear depends on how much English influence there is on your idiolect... Or how close to the border you are o/~ y sus troconas del año, que afuera tenian parqueadas o/~
- cfinnberg 3y ago
  Actually "aparcar" and "estacionar" are synonyms (at least in Spain, but I think also in latin America [0]) Maybe you meant "parar" or "detener" (to stop), that don't clarify by them self if the engine has to be stopped or not (usually is the whole sentence what clarifies that) [0]: https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquear/ https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquea...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

idlewords 3y ago

It's extremely common in every situation like this, the grammar of the original language stays but the lexicon (nouns especially) gets rapidly switched out with borrowings and calques from the surrounding language.

rrradical 3y ago
Oh interesting. Japanese is like this. Many years ago it absorbed Chinese nouns, but more recently it has absorbed many English nouns. Some Americans learning Japanese will regret this last part- wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that means.
- fknorangesite 3y ago
  > Japanese is like this. Every language is like this.
  - semi-extrinsic 3y ago
    Except Icelandic.
    - arnsholt 3y ago
      Oh, even Icelandic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk
  - eru 3y ago
    Different languages embrace this to different degrees.
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      With modern French the interesting one trying to fight this sort of natural evolution by defering a lot of language changes to their Academy and intentionally replacing calques and borrowings with "corrected" versions. Their Academy isn't always successful in getting French speakers to conform to their "corrected" words, but it is fascinating that they still try.
      - biggoodwolf 3y ago
        Similar happens in Spanish, I think just the attempt is valuable in and of itself, if for no other purpose that asking the question, "can we do better?". Otherwise one ends with English and its lowest-common denominator antics
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Japanese is fascinating because they have an different alphabet symbolism for imported words. It has the same phonetics as native Japanese, but the written language distinguishes the origin.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    This is actually not entirely correct. Japanese has three forms of writing: Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana. Kanji, which stands for "Han Language/Characters", was imported from China; "Kan" is the Japanese reading of "Han". It's used more or less as when it was imported and is largely interchangable with Traditional Chinese. Hiragana originated as a simplification of cursive Kanji, because people both today and from a few millenia ago find Kanji too complicated to deal with at times. Its name means "Simplified Kana", in contrast to Kanji. Hiragana is used to accent Kanji and connect sentences together for better flow and comprehension (known as Okurigana), can be used by itself (sometimes in place of Kanji, especially for childrens writing), and is sometimes used to convey an image of cuteness ("kawaii") and femininity due to its curvy styling. Pronunciation guides for Kanji (known as Furigana), if present, are also written with Hiragana. Katakana similarly originated as a simplification of Kanji, though its styling is more straight than Hiragana to enable easier writing with instruments besides brushes or pens on paper (eg: engraving in wood or stone). Its name means "Partial Kana", signifying that it's derived from the parts of Kanji characters. Katakana is used today to write foreign words, scientific names (including Japanese ones), and certain Japanese names such as those of businesses. It's also used to give emphasis, like how bold or italic styling or all caps is used in English. In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Both Hiragana and Katakana have respective characters in their alphabets and phonetically can be interchanged character for character. The common modern day understanding that Katakana "is for foreign words" is merely just one of its use cases.
    - sbierwagen 3y ago
      >In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Such as in the printed copy of Emperor Hirohito's speech announcing the surrender of Japan in 1945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript...
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that I have wished for consistency in every language I have ever learned or tried to learn, which I suspect is what "pure" would mean in this context. Imported words often use different roots and conjugate inconsistently, which makes it harder to remember and use them. (Though of course, as sibling comments point out, any living language will import from other languages; the only escape is in conlangs... but if you actually used those they'd get the same difficulty:])
- detourdog 3y ago
  In Israel a Briefcase was referred to as a James Bond.

muststopmyths 3y ago

parqueo and parquear are used widely in Central and South America so I am not sure it's fair to call them Spanglish. Provided the term is meant to apply to the Spanish spoken by immigrants and/or border area residents in the US.

riffraff 3y ago
Parcheggio and parcheggiare are used in Italian too, I'm pretty sure they're not derived from English, but from "parco" (park), which has Indo-European roots.

ftyers 3y ago

In Spain at least there is a difference between estacionar (to stop with the engine running) and aparcar (to stop and leave). In Mexico the two things are more or less merged, and if you say estacionar or parquear depends on how much English influence there is on your idiolect... Or how close to the border you are o/~ y sus troconas del año, que afuera tenian parqueadas o/~

cfinnberg 3y ago
Actually "aparcar" and "estacionar" are synonyms (at least in Spain, but I think also in latin America [0]) Maybe you meant "parar" or "detener" (to stop), that don't clarify by them self if the engine has to be stopped or not (usually is the whole sentence what clarifies that) [0]: https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquear/ https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquea...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]