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> The switch between languages isn’t random, though We kind of do this already in mainline English, switching between Germanic, French, Latin and Greek based o
by pfannkuchen 3y ago
> The switch between languages isn’t random, though
We kind of do this already in mainline English, switching between Germanic, French, Latin and Greek based on some unwritten rules. Adding Spanish wouldn’t really change things that much considering its close relatives French and Latin are already so well represented. Though I’m sure the Spanish part is more dominant in this dialect than it would be eventually in the broader language.
- EduardoBautista 3y agoSpanglish is not necessarily using English words in Spanish or vice/versa. It's using "troca" ("trucka"?) instead of "camioneta" when referring to "truck". Another example is "parkear" instead of "estacionar" when referring to "parking". This is in the case of the Mexican dialect of Spanglish.
- idlewords 3y agoIt's extremely common in every situation like this, the grammar of the original language stays but the lexicon (nouns especially) gets rapidly switched out with borrowings and calques from the surrounding language.
- rrradical 3y agoOh interesting. Japanese is like this. Many years ago it absorbed Chinese nouns, but more recently it has absorbed many English nouns. Some Americans learning Japanese will regret this last part- wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that means.
- fknorangesite 3y ago> Japanese is like this. Every language is like this.
- semi-extrinsic 3y agoExcept Icelandic.
- arnsholt 3y agoOh, even Icelandic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvítis_fokking_fokk
- eru 3y agoDifferent languages embrace this to different degrees.
- WorldMaker 3y agoWith modern French the interesting one trying to fight this sort of natural evolution by defering a lot of language changes to their Academy and intentionally replacing calques and borrowings with "corrected" versions. Their Academy isn't always successful in getting French speakers to conform to their "corrected" words, but it is fascinating that they still try.
- biggoodwolf 3y agoSimilar happens in Spanish, I think just the attempt is valuable in and of itself, if for no other purpose that asking the question, "can we do better?". Otherwise one ends with English and its lowest-common denominator antics
- s1artibartfast 3y agoJapanese is fascinating because they have an different alphabet symbolism for imported words. It has the same phonetics as native Japanese, but the written language distinguishes the origin.
- Dalewyn 3y agoThis is actually not entirely correct. Japanese has three forms of writing: Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana. Kanji, which stands for "Han Language/Characters", was imported from China; "Kan" is the Japanese reading of "Han". It's used more or less as when it was imported and is largely interchangable with Traditional Chinese. Hiragana originated as a simplification of cursive Kanji, because people both today and from a few millenia ago find Kanji too complicated to deal with at times. Its name means "Simplified Kana", in contrast to Kanji. Hiragana is used to accent Kanji and connect sentences together for better flow and comprehension (known as Okurigana), can be used by itself (sometimes in place of Kanji, especially for childrens writing), and is sometimes used to convey an image of cuteness ("kawaii") and femininity due to its curvy styling. Pronunciation guides for Kanji (known as Furigana), if present, are also written with Hiragana. Katakana similarly originated as a simplification of Kanji, though its styling is more straight than Hiragana to enable easier writing with instruments besides brushes or pens on paper (eg: engraving in wood or stone). Its name means "Partial Kana", signifying that it's derived from the parts of Kanji characters. Katakana is used today to write foreign words, scientific names (including Japanese ones), and certain Japanese names such as those of businesses. It's also used to give emphasis, like how bold or italic styling or all caps is used in English. In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Both Hiragana and Katakana have respective characters in their alphabets and phonetically can be interchanged character for character. The common modern day understanding that Katakana "is for foreign words" is merely just one of its use cases.
- sbierwagen 3y ago>In times past, Katakana was also used instead of Hiragana to accent and connect sentences. Such as in the printed copy of Emperor Hirohito's speech announcing the surrender of Japan in 1945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ImperialSurrenderRescript...
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago> wishing that the language stayed “pure”, as if it were ever actually pure, whatever that I have wished for consistency in every language I have ever learned or tried to learn, which I suspect is what "pure" would mean in this context. Imported words often use different roots and conjugate inconsistently, which makes it harder to remember and use them. (Though of course, as sibling comments point out, any living language will import from other languages; the only escape is in conlangs... but if you actually used those they'd get the same difficulty:])
- detourdog 3y agoIn Israel a Briefcase was referred to as a James Bond.
- muststopmyths 3y agoparqueo and parquear are used widely in Central and South America so I am not sure it's fair to call them Spanglish. Provided the term is meant to apply to the Spanish spoken by immigrants and/or border area residents in the US.
- riffraff 3y agoParcheggio and parcheggiare are used in Italian too, I'm pretty sure they're not derived from English, but from "parco" (park), which has Indo-European roots.
- ftyers 3y agoIn Spain at least there is a difference between estacionar (to stop with the engine running) and aparcar (to stop and leave). In Mexico the two things are more or less merged, and if you say estacionar or parquear depends on how much English influence there is on your idiolect... Or how close to the border you are o/~ y sus troconas del año, que afuera tenian parqueadas o/~
- cfinnberg 3y agoActually "aparcar" and "estacionar" are synonyms (at least in Spain, but I think also in latin America [0]) Maybe you meant "parar" or "detener" (to stop), that don't clarify by them self if the engine has to be stopped or not (usually is the whole sentence what clarifies that) [0]: https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquear/ https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/aparcarestacionarparquea...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cool_dude85 3y agoYou don't switch between Greek and French while speaking English.
- babelfish 3y agoThe doctor performed the Hippocratic Oath on the terrace.
- asveikau 3y agoImported vocabulary is not code switching.
- IIAOPSW 3y agoIs this gatekeeping?
- zirgs 3y agoWhat's the difference?
- samtho 3y agoCode-switching (linguistically) requires the speaker to be multilingual and it describes the process and patterns used to determine when words are spoken in one language versus the other. Imported vocabulary/borrowed words simply describes loanwords that make it into the common lexicon of speakers of the receiving language but not necessarily speakers of the donor language.
- tchaffee 3y agoYou're missing the point of how the vocabulary got imported. It was thanks to code switching.
- samtho 3y agoI don’t disagree with the idea that code-switchers introduce new vocabulary to the general public at all, in fact, the two terms describe a word or phrase at different phases of its journey to integration within a language. In other words, there exists a point in the history of the language or dialect, the use of word or phrase ceases to be code-switching and becomes widely accepted as imported vocabulary. There is a distinction, however, that not all words that are used via code-switching are going to become part of common enough vernacular that it would become accepted within a language, and likewise, there may be cases where loanwords do not enter a language via speakers that code-switch it into their daily vocabulary.
- hsush 3y agoI don't think you're referring to anything remotely approaching bilingual speech. Educated English speakers might use "a priori" or "in vino veritas" or some word in French here in there, but those are tiny changes compared to how spanglish is spoken in Florida and other parts.