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You know honestly I can’t be sure 100%, but that is what I was always taught in my “English as a language of law” class. I hesitate a little bc there’s always t

You know honestly I can’t be sure 100%, but that is what I was always taught in my “English as a language of law” class. I hesitate a little bc there’s always the possibility that I misremembered. That said, my memory is that it came from before the French, during the trial by combat days, where the wealthy could appoint someone to go on their behalf. Another datapoint for this is that a legal title that still exists today is esquire. However a “squire” is also the assistant to the knight who fights in the tournament. It’s totally possible that I’m mistaken about parts of this, especially the pre or post French use of the word, but I also think that a lot this knowledge is fairly esoteric and not captures well, even in today’s age, outside of experts. Not to cast shade on etymology.com at all. Just that it is a possibility. I see a lot of Ancient Greek/Roman stuff that comes up that’s either wrong or just naive, so. Idk. Glad that you think it’s interesting though! I have a book club if anyone’s interested https://r33d.org https://r33d.org We just started reading history of the Peloponnesian war by Thucydides :)

ajkjk 3y ago
Although your book club sounds cool it's not clear.. how to join it? might want to have that front-and-center (if indeed you are hoping to get new members). Yeah I have no idea if etymonline is like, perfect or whatever. But the idea that it comes from 'atorné' does make quite a bit of sense also. The site is a treasure even if it's not perfect (although it has started to have obnoxious ads lately :( )
- asimpletune 3y ago
  Thanks for the feedback. I’ll update the site to make it more clear.
seanhunter 3y ago
You're right that esquire comes from squire, but "esquire" isn't a legal term of any kind. It's literally the title for someone who doesn't have any other noble title (Sir, Lord, etc) and it's entirely up to the choice of the person whether or not to have that as part of their form of address[1]. The idea that "esquire" has some legal significance is a "sovereign citizen" myth. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8160778.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8160778.stm
- asimpletune 3y ago
  That’s interesting and I didn’t know that. In the United States it is definitely a legal title conferred to someone who’s passed the bar exam in their state. But that doesn’t mean they’re using the term in a way that accurately reflects its history.

ajkjk 3y ago

Although your book club sounds cool it's not clear.. how to join it? might want to have that front-and-center (if indeed you are hoping to get new members). Yeah I have no idea if etymonline is like, perfect or whatever. But the idea that it comes from 'atorné' does make quite a bit of sense also. The site is a treasure even if it's not perfect (although it has started to have obnoxious ads lately :( )

asimpletune 3y ago
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll update the site to make it more clear.

seanhunter 3y ago

You're right that esquire comes from squire, but "esquire" isn't a legal term of any kind. It's literally the title for someone who doesn't have any other noble title (Sir, Lord, etc) and it's entirely up to the choice of the person whether or not to have that as part of their form of address[1]. The idea that "esquire" has some legal significance is a "sovereign citizen" myth. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8160778.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8160778.stm

asimpletune 3y ago
That’s interesting and I didn’t know that. In the United States it is definitely a legal title conferred to someone who’s passed the bar exam in their state. But that doesn’t mean they’re using the term in a way that accurately reflects its history.