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I think this WFH articles are generilizing too much. Remote work is challenging for companies that, and I need to say this, in the end must deliver predictable

by kfk 3y ago

I think this WFH articles are generilizing too much. Remote work is challenging for companies that, and I need to say this, in the end must deliver predictable realiable value to their customers at reasonable prices. There are safety, security and trust problems to mention 3 very important things in 2023 with remote work. Just imagine what can happen if you need to fire an employee and they must give you back the work laptop with sensitive data… but they are working from a remote beach in Thailand. Best case they collaborate. Worst case they sell the laptop to hackers. This doesn’t mean remote work is doomed or bad, it just means we are dealing with a complex issue, it’s not going to be a black/white solution.

ghaff 3y ago
What's keeping them from selling the sensitive data to hackers in any case? Among concerns with remote work, this one seems pretty far down the list.
- mostlysimilar 3y ago
  Very far down the list considering most companies employ remote management software that can immediately lock and wipe a machine. Not to mention the legal ramifications. If your company IP is so critical that the legal consequences are not enough, you probably have other controls in place and it isn’t just sitting on an employee’s laptop.
- kfk 3y ago
  You will not like the answer, but it's the face to face trust and relationship you build with them over time. I know, I know, it's not a perfect logical answer, but it's been working like this well enough for longer than 100% remote options were so common. I am not saying I am right and I am not saying remote is bad, I am just saying this isn't a black and white topic yet, maybe one it will be, right now we should be OK to say "ok it might be good in some cases, but not all cases".
jenscow 3y ago
From an office, I could just email "sensitive data" to someone on a remote beach in Thailand.
- katbyte 3y ago
  Or copy to usb and mail. Or take photos with your phone.
- whateveracct 3y ago
  Exactly - this argument is just manager/CEO paranoia. Which is a real thing. The CEO I cofounded a small business with always had these level of "can they destroy our business" questions for me about foreign contractors he wanted to hire. I always said the same thing - "we have common-sense controls in place for our size, but at the end of the day, you have to trust the people you hire to be successful." He never did stop the paranoia though.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
afandian 3y ago
Isn't the answer simply full disk encryption and a policy about logging in? The laptop is probably a financial write-off in any case.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  We started leasing our laptops because the IT department didn't want to deal with used laptops anymore. Said that they're essentially e-waste to the company.
  - afandian 3y ago
    I’ve had a couple of great laptops off eBay that were clearly from a leased fleet. Could be worse, waste wise.
prh8 3y ago
There are enterprise solutions for device management and access that solve this problem. Additionally, someone wanting to do such things would have already been building up that sensitive data and it wouldn't matter what happens when you fire them.
raverbashing 3y ago
> Just imagine what can happen if you need to fire an employee and they must give you back the work laptop with sensitive data… This is literally a non-issue if your IT department is modestly competent "They could sell it to hackers in Thailand" or he could get robbed on SF streets while going to the office to please some dum-dum manager.
dv_dt 3y ago
> Remote work is challenging for companies that, and I need to say this, in the end must deliver predictable reliable value to their customers at reasonable prices. This is a fear that remote work would somehow not provide value, not a fact. The perhaps unconscious choice of adjectives - "reliable" seems particularly indicative of a fear. If one isn't in a high security requirement field where things like usb ports are locked down even in office, why is there worry about data exposure with remote vs in office work?
- kfk 3y ago
  Have you got experience on this? Because I have seen it first hand and reliability goes down with remote, people can leave anytime which happens less if you have developed a face to face rapport. No I don't have numbers, but neither you do? This is my point, there is no black and white here and it should be normal to discuss the topic. I fear too many people are jumping into this "remote is better" without putting enough thought into it.
  - dv_dt 3y ago
    I've worked remote and non-remote jobs - the variation in productivity was imho independent of remote vs non-remote, and more a function of management curated environment & culture and developer mix. Distrust is a bigger anti-efficiency red flag.

by kfk 3y ago

ghaff 3y ago

What's keeping them from selling the sensitive data to hackers in any case? Among concerns with remote work, this one seems pretty far down the list.

mostlysimilar 3y ago
Very far down the list considering most companies employ remote management software that can immediately lock and wipe a machine. Not to mention the legal ramifications. If your company IP is so critical that the legal consequences are not enough, you probably have other controls in place and it isn’t just sitting on an employee’s laptop.
kfk 3y ago
You will not like the answer, but it's the face to face trust and relationship you build with them over time. I know, I know, it's not a perfect logical answer, but it's been working like this well enough for longer than 100% remote options were so common. I am not saying I am right and I am not saying remote is bad, I am just saying this isn't a black and white topic yet, maybe one it will be, right now we should be OK to say "ok it might be good in some cases, but not all cases".

jenscow 3y ago

From an office, I could just email "sensitive data" to someone on a remote beach in Thailand.

katbyte 3y ago
Or copy to usb and mail. Or take photos with your phone.
whateveracct 3y ago
Exactly - this argument is just manager/CEO paranoia. Which is a real thing. The CEO I cofounded a small business with always had these level of "can they destroy our business" questions for me about foreign contractors he wanted to hire. I always said the same thing - "we have common-sense controls in place for our size, but at the end of the day, you have to trust the people you hire to be successful." He never did stop the paranoia though.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

afandian 3y ago

Isn't the answer simply full disk encryption and a policy about logging in? The laptop is probably a financial write-off in any case.

Hamuko 3y ago
We started leasing our laptops because the IT department didn't want to deal with used laptops anymore. Said that they're essentially e-waste to the company.
- afandian 3y ago
  I’ve had a couple of great laptops off eBay that were clearly from a leased fleet. Could be worse, waste wise.

prh8 3y ago

There are enterprise solutions for device management and access that solve this problem. Additionally, someone wanting to do such things would have already been building up that sensitive data and it wouldn't matter what happens when you fire them.

raverbashing 3y ago

> Just imagine what can happen if you need to fire an employee and they must give you back the work laptop with sensitive data… This is literally a non-issue if your IT department is modestly competent "They could sell it to hackers in Thailand" or he could get robbed on SF streets while going to the office to please some dum-dum manager.

dv_dt 3y ago

> Remote work is challenging for companies that, and I need to say this, in the end must deliver predictable reliable value to their customers at reasonable prices. This is a fear that remote work would somehow not provide value, not a fact. The perhaps unconscious choice of adjectives - "reliable" seems particularly indicative of a fear. If one isn't in a high security requirement field where things like usb ports are locked down even in office, why is there worry about data exposure with remote vs in office work?

kfk 3y ago
Have you got experience on this? Because I have seen it first hand and reliability goes down with remote, people can leave anytime which happens less if you have developed a face to face rapport. No I don't have numbers, but neither you do? This is my point, there is no black and white here and it should be normal to discuss the topic. I fear too many people are jumping into this "remote is better" without putting enough thought into it.
- dv_dt 3y ago
  I've worked remote and non-remote jobs - the variation in productivity was imho independent of remote vs non-remote, and more a function of management curated environment & culture and developer mix. Distrust is a bigger anti-efficiency red flag.