5 ms·

Years ago, when detroit was in desparate throws, I thought that it was ripe for a new 'silicon valley' and they should have pushed a huge start-up market. They

Years ago, when detroit was in desparate throws, I thought that it was ripe for a new 'silicon valley' and they should have pushed a huge start-up market. They didnt, but they should have. I still think detroit is a solid market - but you have to get some serious incentives... Look at fn twitter - they got SF to give them millions in tax breaks, only to find that all the other services (and tremote work) were untennable on market street (the Emporium now the westfield mall) has turned back into the failed district it was in the 90s (hint; public transport and parking greed fucked that up) Now look - the city of SF depends on Salesforce and twitter to bring thousands of people into the city - but it has no affordable place to house or park them. I think twitter owes the city a giant amount of money - and benioff can go fuck himself (speaking as someone who built out many of his offices) The point being that places such as Detroit need to up there game and build a tech scene - but I am afraid its too late. - EDIT: @DANG - im tired of this fn "posting too fast" -- it stiffles intereaction. I dont participate in Reddit any longer, but seriously - ive talked to you about this many times.... I want to engage with HNers, and your speed-brake thwarts that... knock it off. :-)

ghaff 3y ago
I was at a fairly sizable tech event in Detroit last fall. The convention center and area down by the river were nice enough but people didn't feel very safe in general and there were apparently some incidents--and we're not even talking particularly bad parts of town. A tech company would probably have a lot more luck with something like an Ann Arbor location. I think Detroit proper would be a really tough sell to get most people to move there.
prepend 3y ago
The problem is that Detroit sucks and it’s really cold. I don’t think startups would want to locate there. Also, they are poorly managed and that’s part of their decline. They aren’t trying any good ideas like encouraging startup incubators and whatnot.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  Also no useful public transit. The People Mover is a joke and the busses are famous for being hours late / just not showing up. The infra used to be decent when the auto mfgs were around there and out in Southfield where some bigger office buildings were, but they haven’t kept up with the times in terms of connectivity (why would they with no one to use it?). Housing is cheap but who would want to live there? Not much to do, not many cool smart people to hang out with, winters are awful, food scene mostly sucks, music scene is decent if you love really underground stuff and noise / screamo / UG electronic (esp house), schools are awful, nature has tons of mosquitos from all the lakes, lots of lakes if you’re into boating (and lake cabins are like $50k), skiing sucks (no mountains), airport sucks and is far away + Delta took over so if you want non-stop to anywhere expect to pay at least $400, Chicago is a long drive but doable for weekends (again no train which could be an hour on high speed rail, it’s less than 300 miles but flying takes as long as driving due to airports and transport on both ends)… Yeah, Detroit…nah. Source: grew up there. Never going back.
  - yareally 3y ago
    > "and lake cabins are like $50k" As a resident of the state below, I've been looking at cabins. Any recommendations?
    - t-3 3y ago
      Pretty much everything north of ~Flint is good if you just want a house by a lake, The UP especially so. Wisconsin and Minnesota have fewer lakes, but they are also good, and have better roads. If you want to go out on the Great Lakes, skiing/snowboarding (on dunes?), hiking, kayaking, hunting, or fishing, narrow down your choices accordingly and take a visit to check it out.
      - samstave 3y ago
        Come to Flint, the water is.... a liquid?
reaperman 3y ago
> Years ago, when detroit was in desparate throws, I thought that it was ripe for a new 'silicon valley' and they should have pushed a huge start-up market. They didnt, but they should have. The #1 land-owner in downtown Detroit[0] (founder of Rock Financial and owner of Rocket Mortgage, Quicken Loans, and Cleveland Cavaliers) thought the same thing at the time and worked hard to make it happen[1, 1b]. It never "blew up" but the efforts did bring in some substantial amount of revitalization and additional business which perseveres through today. He also spearheaded attempts to win Amazon's bid for "HQ2" to bring amazon's new major headquarters to Detroit.[2] Dan Gilbert went to public high school outside of Detroit, and studied at relatively low-cost state schools (Michigan State University, Wayne State University). His son recently passed at 26 from neurofibromatosis, a genetic disorder that causes tumors, that can affect the brain, spinal cord and various nerve signals.[3] His dad ran a small lounge / restaurant in Detroit which looked like this[4], and his mom was a realtor[5]. His grandfather, Manuel Feldstein, owned car washes in Detroit[5]. And no, I'm not part of a PR effort for the family, I just like looking into where various modern-day rich people came from. Detroit had a huge role in prohibition smuggling from Canada with plenty of people rising up the economic strata a la "Great Gatsby". It's claimed that 75% of the alcohol smuggled into the USA during prohibition came into Detroit. The backdrop for the culture of "Detroit muscle cars" were speed-running alcohol cargoes across the frozen Detroit river from Canada to USA. Smugglers even built a "beer pipeline" running from a brewery in Canada to the basement of an establishment in Detroit. The mafia were heavily involved in these profits. While it's possible that the car wash and restaurants were money-laundering fronts for such endeavors, the family's choice of neighborhoods and schooling are consistent with that of their public persona. Yes, they received plenty of benefit from being white during a time of great segregation, and benefitted from connections across the Jewish community which led to his founding of Rock Financial with Ron Berman. But it doesn't appear that he was born with any particularly different advantages than my father's Catholic family or many other (white) families in that area. My grandfather went from penniless after serving in WW2 to standard middle class as middle management at Ford Motor Company and my father came home from school one to a smoldering pile of ashes on the front lawn from a cross that was burnt in opposition to my grandparents vocal support for allowing black people to buy houses in Plymouth, MI around the time of the Detroit race riots. 0: https://www.michiganradio.org/economy/2013-06-20/gilbert-owns-downtown-detroit-but-who-owns-the-most-private-land-in-the-whole-city https://www.michiganradio.org/economy/2013-06-20/gilbert-own... 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/business/dan-gilberts-quest-to-remake-downtown-detroit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/business/dan-gilberts-que... 1b: Alternate: https://archive.ph/abzX7 https://archive.ph/abzX7 2: https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170914/news/135516/dan-gilbert-lead-detroits-super-bowl-type-bid-amazon-hq2 https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170914/news/135516... 3: https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2023/05/cavs-owner-dan-gilberts-son-nick-gilbert-dies-at-26.html https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2023/05/cavs-owner-dan-gilber... 4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295323506705 https://www.ebay.com/itm/295323506705 5: https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/djnews/djn.2010.08.19.001/38 https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/djnews/djn.2010.08.19.001/...
AlbertCory 3y ago
Renaissance Center was started in 1970. That's how long the idea of "Detroit renaissance" has been current. At some point, you have to realize it's never going to happen.
titanomachy 3y ago
> im tired of this fn "posting too fast" -- it stiffles intereaction My guess is that people are downvoting you (maybe because of profanity? not sure) which results in a shadowban/ratelimit of your account. Your comment shows up as gray to me, which I think means it's been downvoted or flagged.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Also, generally, if you're having issues with HN, whether other members or the site itself, email the mods: hn@ycombinator.com They can fix things, or explain rationales. They've been overwhelmingly gracious, clear, and when necessary, firm in my own discussions. (Most of my communications are brief items readily fixed or not. Occasionally a longer bit, and even those at least generate a response.)
  - CogitoCogito 3y ago
    > Also, generally, if you're having issues with HN, whether other members or the site itself, email the mods: hn@ycombinator.com That's what he did? From gp's post: > EDIT: @DANG - im tired of this fn "posting too fast" -- it stiffles intereaction. > I dont participate in Reddit any longer, but seriously - ive talked to you about this many times.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36382738 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36382738 The whole random time-based temporary bans cloaked as "posting too fast" is pretty screwed up. It's unclear what the restrictions are (as dang himself has told me) and you don't get the warning until _after_ you try to post once you've past the limit. But yes I do agree with you that dang is kind of unusually responsive when you question him on his decisions. That, however, doesn't mean you'll find his reasoning all that compelling. Regardless, he runs the forum so he gets to censor it as he wishes.
    - samstave 3y ago
      Yeah, DANG and SAMA and PG all know me.. I am kinda thorn they hate to love... Ive been here 17 years, and I prick them in the ankles often....
    - 3y ago

ghaff 3y ago

I was at a fairly sizable tech event in Detroit last fall. The convention center and area down by the river were nice enough but people didn't feel very safe in general and there were apparently some incidents--and we're not even talking particularly bad parts of town. A tech company would probably have a lot more luck with something like an Ann Arbor location. I think Detroit proper would be a really tough sell to get most people to move there.

prepend 3y ago

The problem is that Detroit sucks and it’s really cold. I don’t think startups would want to locate there. Also, they are poorly managed and that’s part of their decline. They aren’t trying any good ideas like encouraging startup incubators and whatnot.

seanp2k2 3y ago
Also no useful public transit. The People Mover is a joke and the busses are famous for being hours late / just not showing up. The infra used to be decent when the auto mfgs were around there and out in Southfield where some bigger office buildings were, but they haven’t kept up with the times in terms of connectivity (why would they with no one to use it?). Housing is cheap but who would want to live there? Not much to do, not many cool smart people to hang out with, winters are awful, food scene mostly sucks, music scene is decent if you love really underground stuff and noise / screamo / UG electronic (esp house), schools are awful, nature has tons of mosquitos from all the lakes, lots of lakes if you’re into boating (and lake cabins are like $50k), skiing sucks (no mountains), airport sucks and is far away + Delta took over so if you want non-stop to anywhere expect to pay at least $400, Chicago is a long drive but doable for weekends (again no train which could be an hour on high speed rail, it’s less than 300 miles but flying takes as long as driving due to airports and transport on both ends)… Yeah, Detroit…nah. Source: grew up there. Never going back.
- yareally 3y ago
  > "and lake cabins are like $50k" As a resident of the state below, I've been looking at cabins. Any recommendations?
  - t-3 3y ago
    Pretty much everything north of ~Flint is good if you just want a house by a lake, The UP especially so. Wisconsin and Minnesota have fewer lakes, but they are also good, and have better roads. If you want to go out on the Great Lakes, skiing/snowboarding (on dunes?), hiking, kayaking, hunting, or fishing, narrow down your choices accordingly and take a visit to check it out.
    - samstave 3y ago
      Come to Flint, the water is.... a liquid?

reaperman 3y ago

> Years ago, when detroit was in desparate throws, I thought that it was ripe for a new 'silicon valley' and they should have pushed a huge start-up market. They didnt, but they should have. The #1 land-owner in downtown Detroit[0] (founder of Rock Financial and owner of Rocket Mortgage, Quicken Loans, and Cleveland Cavaliers) thought the same thing at the time and worked hard to make it happen[1, 1b]. It never "blew up" but the efforts did bring in some substantial amount of revitalization and additional business which perseveres through today. He also spearheaded attempts to win Amazon's bid for "HQ2" to bring amazon's new major headquarters to Detroit.[2] Dan Gilbert went to public high school outside of Detroit, and studied at relatively low-cost state schools (Michigan State University, Wayne State University). His son recently passed at 26 from neurofibromatosis, a genetic disorder that causes tumors, that can affect the brain, spinal cord and various nerve signals.[3] His dad ran a small lounge / restaurant in Detroit which looked like this[4], and his mom was a realtor[5]. His grandfather, Manuel Feldstein, owned car washes in Detroit[5]. And no, I'm not part of a PR effort for the family, I just like looking into where various modern-day rich people came from. Detroit had a huge role in prohibition smuggling from Canada with plenty of people rising up the economic strata a la "Great Gatsby". It's claimed that 75% of the alcohol smuggled into the USA during prohibition came into Detroit. The backdrop for the culture of "Detroit muscle cars" were speed-running alcohol cargoes across the frozen Detroit river from Canada to USA. Smugglers even built a "beer pipeline" running from a brewery in Canada to the basement of an establishment in Detroit. The mafia were heavily involved in these profits. While it's possible that the car wash and restaurants were money-laundering fronts for such endeavors, the family's choice of neighborhoods and schooling are consistent with that of their public persona. Yes, they received plenty of benefit from being white during a time of great segregation, and benefitted from connections across the Jewish community which led to his founding of Rock Financial with Ron Berman. But it doesn't appear that he was born with any particularly different advantages than my father's Catholic family or many other (white) families in that area. My grandfather went from penniless after serving in WW2 to standard middle class as middle management at Ford Motor Company and my father came home from school one to a smoldering pile of ashes on the front lawn from a cross that was burnt in opposition to my grandparents vocal support for allowing black people to buy houses in Plymouth, MI around the time of the Detroit race riots. 0: https://www.michiganradio.org/economy/2013-06-20/gilbert-owns-downtown-detroit-but-who-owns-the-most-private-land-in-the-whole-city https://www.michiganradio.org/economy/2013-06-20/gilbert-own... 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/business/dan-gilberts-quest-to-remake-downtown-detroit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/business/dan-gilberts-que... 1b: Alternate: https://archive.ph/abzX7 https://archive.ph/abzX7 2: https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170914/news/135516/dan-gilbert-lead-detroits-super-bowl-type-bid-amazon-hq2 https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170914/news/135516... 3: https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2023/05/cavs-owner-dan-gilberts-son-nick-gilbert-dies-at-26.html https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2023/05/cavs-owner-dan-gilber... 4: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295323506705 https://www.ebay.com/itm/295323506705 5: https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/djnews/djn.2010.08.19.001/38 https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/djnews/djn.2010.08.19.001/...

AlbertCory 3y ago

Renaissance Center was started in 1970. That's how long the idea of "Detroit renaissance" has been current. At some point, you have to realize it's never going to happen.

titanomachy 3y ago

> im tired of this fn "posting too fast" -- it stiffles intereaction My guess is that people are downvoting you (maybe because of profanity? not sure) which results in a shadowban/ratelimit of your account. Your comment shows up as gray to me, which I think means it's been downvoted or flagged.

dredmorbius 3y ago
Also, generally, if you're having issues with HN, whether other members or the site itself, email the mods: hn@ycombinator.com They can fix things, or explain rationales. They've been overwhelmingly gracious, clear, and when necessary, firm in my own discussions. (Most of my communications are brief items readily fixed or not. Occasionally a longer bit, and even those at least generate a response.)
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  > Also, generally, if you're having issues with HN, whether other members or the site itself, email the mods: hn@ycombinator.com That's what he did? From gp's post: > EDIT: @DANG - im tired of this fn "posting too fast" -- it stiffles intereaction. > I dont participate in Reddit any longer, but seriously - ive talked to you about this many times.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36382738 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36382738 The whole random time-based temporary bans cloaked as "posting too fast" is pretty screwed up. It's unclear what the restrictions are (as dang himself has told me) and you don't get the warning until _after_ you try to post once you've past the limit. But yes I do agree with you that dang is kind of unusually responsive when you question him on his decisions. That, however, doesn't mean you'll find his reasoning all that compelling. Regardless, he runs the forum so he gets to censor it as he wishes.
  - samstave 3y ago
    Yeah, DANG and SAMA and PG all know me.. I am kinda thorn they hate to love... Ive been here 17 years, and I prick them in the ankles often....
  - 3y ago