5 ms·

It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling variou

by allenu 3y ago

It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling various self-improvement systems. If anybody follows their system and doesn't succeed, well, they either didn't try hard enough or they really didn't follow the plan as it was laid out. It's a foolproof way to show the next sucker that your system works.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Also the cornerstone of recommending diet and exercise as health advice.
- donkey_oaty 3y ago
  Are diet and exercise not good health advice?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Are most advice in self-help books not good productivity/happiness advice? The problem with both is that people who can follow them for effect already are following them. So in practice, diet and exercise is what I call "fuck off advice": the person you give it to, should they believe it, will try and try and not see much effect, and eventually fail - but the process will take 3-6 months or more, during which they won't bother you with their problems, and at the end of it, they'll blame themselves for not being good enough, and perhaps even see you as a good person who tried to help.
- Gud 3y ago
  I mean, to me it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body. Why wouldn’t diet and exercise be the cornerstones of having a healthy life?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body It's obvious in general - e.g. clearly poisonous things are clearly poisonous. Less so in specifics, as the body is good at extracting what it needs from ingested food, and discarding the rest; it works out as long as you provide the full range of the things the body needs. However, that wasn't my point. My point is, recommending change in diet and exercise regime as a solution to problems is about as effective as telling one the solution to money problems is to study nuclear physics and then join a bank as a quant. Yes, technically it works, but people who could do this are already doing this; for everyone else, it's a near-impossible task, given the constraints of their current adult life. Getting on what's currently considered healthy diet and good exercise regime, means trying to endure self-inflicted psychological torture and having non-productive but tiring activities cut into the amount of time you have in a day/week - for indefinite time period, but at least couple months, and uncertain gains. Not many adults can pull that off. Which is why they don't, which is why "diet and exercise" is what I call "fuck-off advice". For most who try, it's bound to fail, mostly for structural reasons, and will bring plenty of pain and guilt in the process.
    - Gud 3y ago
      That someone can’t change their lifestyle for the better(“near-impossible “) is just wrong. You are describing some fantasy scenario where you have to endure months of pain before you notice any results. It’s just not true. I believe most people who don’t train their body and eat well have had wrong training from childhood, including me. My diet still sucks but is getting better each month by a conscious unlearning of poor habits inherited from my parents. An untrained individual(not morbidly obese) who incorporates the following 3 minute workout in their morning routine will feel the changes already on day 2: Hold a plank, for as long as you can manage 30 second break Push ups, as many as you can do 30 second break Again do push ups, as many as you can do The extremely short body weight workout I described will still create a noticeable improvement and can be improved upon on when the individual feels ready. What I described will be a good first step and is hardly akin to studying nuclear physics. You don’t have to be an Olympic level athlete to reap the rewards of daily exercise. In general, an improvement in diet and physical activity, even small changes, has an almost immediate positive effect. Clarity of mind, improved self confidence, better sleep…
robocat 3y ago
> It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling various self-improvement systems For example “ HOW TO IDENTIFY & REMOVE ABUNDANCE BLOCKS FOR MANIFESTATION”https://selfmadeladies.com/overcome-abuandance-blocks-faster-manifesting/ https://selfmadeladies.com/overcome-abuandance-blocks-faster... An aquantance had paid for a course on manifestation: she talked a lot about “blocks” when I questioned her about what stops manifestation from working! “Blocks” are definitely blame-the-victim e.g. “you didn’t believe strongly enough so your cancer wasn’t cured”.
pdfernhout 3y ago
The same goes for most schooling. If you succeed, the school takes the credit for "educating" you. If you fail, you just did not try hard enough.

by allenu 3y ago

TeMPOraL 3y ago

Also the cornerstone of recommending diet and exercise as health advice.

donkey_oaty 3y ago
Are diet and exercise not good health advice?
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Are most advice in self-help books not good productivity/happiness advice? The problem with both is that people who can follow them for effect already are following them. So in practice, diet and exercise is what I call "fuck off advice": the person you give it to, should they believe it, will try and try and not see much effect, and eventually fail - but the process will take 3-6 months or more, during which they won't bother you with their problems, and at the end of it, they'll blame themselves for not being good enough, and perhaps even see you as a good person who tried to help.
Gud 3y ago
I mean, to me it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body. Why wouldn’t diet and exercise be the cornerstones of having a healthy life?
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body It's obvious in general - e.g. clearly poisonous things are clearly poisonous. Less so in specifics, as the body is good at extracting what it needs from ingested food, and discarding the rest; it works out as long as you provide the full range of the things the body needs. However, that wasn't my point. My point is, recommending change in diet and exercise regime as a solution to problems is about as effective as telling one the solution to money problems is to study nuclear physics and then join a bank as a quant. Yes, technically it works, but people who could do this are already doing this; for everyone else, it's a near-impossible task, given the constraints of their current adult life. Getting on what's currently considered healthy diet and good exercise regime, means trying to endure self-inflicted psychological torture and having non-productive but tiring activities cut into the amount of time you have in a day/week - for indefinite time period, but at least couple months, and uncertain gains. Not many adults can pull that off. Which is why they don't, which is why "diet and exercise" is what I call "fuck-off advice". For most who try, it's bound to fail, mostly for structural reasons, and will bring plenty of pain and guilt in the process.
  - Gud 3y ago
    That someone can’t change their lifestyle for the better(“near-impossible “) is just wrong. You are describing some fantasy scenario where you have to endure months of pain before you notice any results. It’s just not true. I believe most people who don’t train their body and eat well have had wrong training from childhood, including me. My diet still sucks but is getting better each month by a conscious unlearning of poor habits inherited from my parents. An untrained individual(not morbidly obese) who incorporates the following 3 minute workout in their morning routine will feel the changes already on day 2: Hold a plank, for as long as you can manage 30 second break Push ups, as many as you can do 30 second break Again do push ups, as many as you can do The extremely short body weight workout I described will still create a noticeable improvement and can be improved upon on when the individual feels ready. What I described will be a good first step and is hardly akin to studying nuclear physics. You don’t have to be an Olympic level athlete to reap the rewards of daily exercise. In general, an improvement in diet and physical activity, even small changes, has an almost immediate positive effect. Clarity of mind, improved self confidence, better sleep…

robocat 3y ago

> It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling various self-improvement systems For example “ HOW TO IDENTIFY & REMOVE ABUNDANCE BLOCKS FOR MANIFESTATION”https://selfmadeladies.com/overcome-abuandance-blocks-faster-manifesting/ https://selfmadeladies.com/overcome-abuandance-blocks-faster... An aquantance had paid for a course on manifestation: she talked a lot about “blocks” when I questioned her about what stops manifestation from working! “Blocks” are definitely blame-the-victim e.g. “you didn’t believe strongly enough so your cancer wasn’t cured”.

pdfernhout 3y ago

The same goes for most schooling. If you succeed, the school takes the credit for "educating" you. If you fail, you just did not try hard enough.