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I know it’s just an arbitrary number picked but this bit jumped out at me: “You’ve just wasted $15,000 on two months work with a team of contractors” The proj

by dagmx 3y ago

I know it’s just an arbitrary number picked but this bit jumped out at me: “You’ve just wasted $15,000 on two months work with a team of contractors” The project may also have been doomed because $15k is not very much for something like they described. But again, fully aware that they probably picked a random number. I’d have just added another zero to make it more realistic.

casperb 3y ago
In our agency 10 years ago we build such websites, it would cost 3000-5000 dollars max. Just with PHP and a simple self build CMS. Including a simple responsive design. We also hosted around 250 of such websites on a single dedicated server. It was very very fast.
- golergka 3y ago
  Where are your developers located and what what are their salaries?
  - casperb 3y ago
    In the Netherlands, Europe. We had a small agency with 3 friends. We did around 250k a year in revenue. Exactly the type of team that is super productive for these kinds of job imo.
- nXqd 3y ago
  I totally agree with this, normally it should be the cost of any content website for clients. The site is fast, and we just need to deploy on one dedicated server or for free with simple maintenance cost per month these days. We still do the same for small clients, with application building with us and want a content page for their blogs.
TrackerFF 3y ago
In the world of entrepreneurship, you mostly find the extremes. Either you have the bootstrap founders that will trawl through fiverr to find the cheapest labor (the same types that will scoff and get insulted at anything over $10k), or you have the well-funded founders that will pay whatever it takes. From experience: Cheapskates and low-ballers will never be happy. They always want something free, more haggle room, more discounts, and always have high demands and expectations. The best thing one can do is to price yourself away from them.
notatoad 3y ago
i think you might be trying to solve the author's imaginary problems. all the author needs is a wordpress site with a couple plugins and a few weeks of back and forth on the design work. if you can't make a good profit on that with a $15k invoice, you're doing something very wrong.
- dagmx 3y ago
  The problem is that their brief is too vague and the real issue is communication. At no point is it clear that they’ve discussed off the shelf solutions, or infrastructure (storage, server hiding, CDN etc). If they had, then they either messed up because 15k over two months is too high or too low. It’s squarely in the: “nobody has actually defined the project territory” for me. Yes, a Wordpress solution would work, but then why even budget 2 months for it, unless bespoke design is involved. Again that becomes a: this is too low or too high to be realistic
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - notatoad 3y ago
    >At no point is it clear that they’ve discussed off the shelf solutions, or infrastructure (storage, server hiding, CDN etc). why should they? the requirements are listed in the article. the job is to meet the requirements. "where should we store the files" is a job the client hires you to answer, not something requiring communication.
    - dagmx 3y ago
      The requirements are insufficient if you’re going to be so particular as to stick exactly to them. You can’t guarantee the uptime’s requested without talking about infrastructure.
Lacerda69 3y ago
150.000$ for a podcast app with zazzle shop and google ads integration? That sounds really high to me. I personally found 15k way too high already; guess it depends on the details/market/circumstances
- dagmx 3y ago
  It could be both too high or too low depending on the communicated expectations of the client. Which is I think the real issue here anyway. But let’s say 15k for two months of a team of contractors. That’s 7.5k/mo. A team says at least two, but I think given they mention sales etc, that’s 3-5 people. Netting 2.5k/person before you take out built in profit margins, healthcare (because it’s dollars, I assume America) and more. That’s roughly 1.5k/person per month. (Of course they could have multiple projects but even then that’s a low amount imho for a contractor with sales) If they’re expecting an off the shelf solution, then they’re getting fleeced on the costs and 15k is too high, but if they’re going to a company that does big solutions than they spent too little. There’s too little info in general
totallywrong 3y ago
15k is rather high for those specs. A single competent dev can build that in a month.
- dagmx 3y ago
  15k for a single dev over a month, sure. 15k for a team over multiple months is different though.

by dagmx 3y ago

casperb 3y ago

In our agency 10 years ago we build such websites, it would cost 3000-5000 dollars max. Just with PHP and a simple self build CMS. Including a simple responsive design. We also hosted around 250 of such websites on a single dedicated server. It was very very fast.

golergka 3y ago
Where are your developers located and what what are their salaries?
- casperb 3y ago
  In the Netherlands, Europe. We had a small agency with 3 friends. We did around 250k a year in revenue. Exactly the type of team that is super productive for these kinds of job imo.
nXqd 3y ago
I totally agree with this, normally it should be the cost of any content website for clients. The site is fast, and we just need to deploy on one dedicated server or for free with simple maintenance cost per month these days. We still do the same for small clients, with application building with us and want a content page for their blogs.

TrackerFF 3y ago

In the world of entrepreneurship, you mostly find the extremes. Either you have the bootstrap founders that will trawl through fiverr to find the cheapest labor (the same types that will scoff and get insulted at anything over $10k), or you have the well-funded founders that will pay whatever it takes. From experience: Cheapskates and low-ballers will never be happy. They always want something free, more haggle room, more discounts, and always have high demands and expectations. The best thing one can do is to price yourself away from them.

notatoad 3y ago

i think you might be trying to solve the author's imaginary problems. all the author needs is a wordpress site with a couple plugins and a few weeks of back and forth on the design work. if you can't make a good profit on that with a $15k invoice, you're doing something very wrong.

dagmx 3y ago
The problem is that their brief is too vague and the real issue is communication. At no point is it clear that they’ve discussed off the shelf solutions, or infrastructure (storage, server hiding, CDN etc). If they had, then they either messed up because 15k over two months is too high or too low. It’s squarely in the: “nobody has actually defined the project territory” for me. Yes, a Wordpress solution would work, but then why even budget 2 months for it, unless bespoke design is involved. Again that becomes a: this is too low or too high to be realistic
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- notatoad 3y ago
  >At no point is it clear that they’ve discussed off the shelf solutions, or infrastructure (storage, server hiding, CDN etc). why should they? the requirements are listed in the article. the job is to meet the requirements. "where should we store the files" is a job the client hires you to answer, not something requiring communication.
  - dagmx 3y ago
    The requirements are insufficient if you’re going to be so particular as to stick exactly to them. You can’t guarantee the uptime’s requested without talking about infrastructure.

Lacerda69 3y ago

150.000$ for a podcast app with zazzle shop and google ads integration? That sounds really high to me. I personally found 15k way too high already; guess it depends on the details/market/circumstances

dagmx 3y ago
It could be both too high or too low depending on the communicated expectations of the client. Which is I think the real issue here anyway. But let’s say 15k for two months of a team of contractors. That’s 7.5k/mo. A team says at least two, but I think given they mention sales etc, that’s 3-5 people. Netting 2.5k/person before you take out built in profit margins, healthcare (because it’s dollars, I assume America) and more. That’s roughly 1.5k/person per month. (Of course they could have multiple projects but even then that’s a low amount imho for a contractor with sales) If they’re expecting an off the shelf solution, then they’re getting fleeced on the costs and 15k is too high, but if they’re going to a company that does big solutions than they spent too little. There’s too little info in general

totallywrong 3y ago

15k is rather high for those specs. A single competent dev can build that in a month.

dagmx 3y ago
15k for a single dev over a month, sure. 15k for a team over multiple months is different though.