7 ms·

It’s a self-truthing statement. As in, everyone who doesn’t agree with you is also excluded from your criteria. So from your point of view, you are absolutely r

It’s a self-truthing statement. As in, everyone who doesn’t agree with you is also excluded from your criteria. So from your point of view, you are absolutely right. It goes like this: - Papa deer: “Remember son, you have the power to make objects move by thought. If you see a car rolling towards you, STARE at it straight in the headlights and concentrate and move it with your mind.” - Son deer: “Isn’t that how grandpa died?” - Papa deer: “He didn’t believe enough.” So I’ll say it straight away: Some people, no matter how they work to build a startup, are blocked from success by external factors, on which they can do nothing. And I can say that because I’m a millionaire twice from startups, and that gift/set of skills/learnings/factors will never dawn on some people. Of course I’m definitely not saying that because I’m single and have no talent in women ;) But I’m tired of “Just put your mind to it, and if it doesn’t work, it’s because you didn’t try enough.” No. I irritate women. I can see it in their eyes, and there is no way around that (at least until someone tells me what my defect is, assuming it’s a defect I can work upon, but everyone lies to me saying “try more”. No, papa deer).

safety1st 3y ago
> Some people, no matter how they work to build a startup, are blocked from success by external factors, on which they can do nothing. What are the factors specifically? How are you defining success? My definition is "You built a profitable business" and there are so many small businesses doing this across the world, I can't really think of external factors that are true deal breakers except perhaps very bad health, it's hard to start a business when you're bedridden. Millions of people are starting businesses all the time in incredibly limited situations like a street food cart in a slum in India and succeeding.
- Mezzie 3y ago
  Not who you responded to, but I have a disability (Multiple Sclerosis) that pretty much precludes me from building a successful business. Starting a successful, profitable business usually requires both working around the clock at first in order to establish it and the ability to forego health insurance/healthcare for a period of time. If I'm lucky I have 10 functioning hours a day and I need to make money to not starve so 8 is taken up with a full time job (luckily I walk 5 minutes to work so no commute). I also still need to shower, eat, and exercise to keep my physical condition from deteriorating. On bad days I'm sneaking in naps at work because I have less than 8 hours of good functioning. Weekends are usually spent recovering (sleep/migraine). Basically anything that eats up your time. Disability is just an example problem that nobody can blame on us. Edit: It doesn't need to be severe, which is why I mention it. I'm actually better off than 95% of MS patients.
  - pdfernhout 3y ago
    You probably know this, but Dr. Terry Wahls, MD, and Nicole Apelian, PhD herbalist are two professionals with MS who have used diet and such to manage their MS. See also Dr. Joel Fuhrman: https://www.drfuhrman.com/health-concerns/9/multiple-sclerosis https://www.drfuhrman.com/health-concerns/9/multiple-scleros... His plan also has a lot of success with reducing or eliminating migraines for many people. Best of luck with managing MS.
- bjelkeman-again 3y ago
  I think it is fair to say that there is a difference between starting a business you can survive on and one which will make you a millionaire. These often get mixed, especially on HN.
FredPret 3y ago
While anyone might not be able to hit the big time, most skills are learnable / improvable.
inconceivable 3y ago
i also sold my startup to a good outcome and ran the business very profitably for years and i agree that there are some things that can not be taught - but that doesn't mean they can't be learned if you have the right mental models. at one point i was terrible at dating / women but over the years i've gotten a lot better than where i started. and yes, there are some people who are just hopeless because they refuse to let go of weird mental hangups that aren't based in reality. here are some personal observations which you may or may not agree with. 1. you need to be in reasonable shape. pay no attention to the exceptions to this rule, they don't apply to you. so get fit however you want. the more the better. nobody wants to fuck a slug. 2. you don't NEED money, but it certainly doesn't hurt. truly not caring about bills/expenses exudes something you can't fake. broke dudes can truly not care about bills also, from the other side. counter-intuitive, right? if you were broke, could you fake it convincingly? no, probably not. because the exceptions don't apply to you. 3. if you show an ounce, a smidge, one iota, a mere hint of neediness, you're fuckin' GONE. again, pay no attention to the exceptions because they don't apply to you. this can be anything from needing to text/communicate way too often, or weighing other peoples' opinions too much, or being unsure of how to deal with a situation. if you're confused about life just keep it to yourself and ask your male friends or older guys. being confident and wrong is an easy fix if you're a fast learner. being a wishy washy dork is unforgiveable. 4. learn how to dress well in your own style. the exceptions don't apply to you. everyone has their own style so there's not much to say here other than make sure everything fits. 5. being good at sex matters a lot, or at least not terrible. you need a solid baseline upon which to improve. this may seem like a catch-22 because it is. catch-22 is the base layer of reality of the male condition. if you want success you need to figure it out, just like in business. just fucking figure it out, smart guy. the exceptions don't apply to you. 6. height and race matters a lot. if you're short or not white you need to work harder at everything, unless you are exceptional, which you clearly are not. whether or not this is worth it is up to you. if the threshold for effort is deemed to be too much, that's a valid response to a skewed market. just know that every other guy out there is hoping you give up. 7. a woman can break up with you or dump you or ghost you for absolutely no reason at all even if you are the perfect ideal person on paper. this is a non-deterministic field of outcomes. if you get upset at this, you need to grow up. 8. persistence in the face of overwhelming odds against you is how you succeed in business, it applies here also. some are lucky, they are exceptional, and you are not.
criddell 3y ago
Are you saying you irritate women and it’s due to external factors over which you have no control? I would bet a good therapist or dating coach could help you.
- eastbound 3y ago
  I irritate women, it may or may not be under my control, for example if it’s due to my race then it’s not, if it’s due to societal clichés then it’s not; and for what is under my control, I have seen for about $10k of psychologists and I was never told the defect I have, probably because that would discourage me, instead they say there’s always a chance, never try never know, ask them out and blah blah blah. I’d love if someone told me my truth, but until then, I can’t do much. Granted I didn’t try a dating coach, I don’t know where to find them, their answers will always be “pay me $100 and believe in yourself”, and yes I’m very afraid that if I find out a dating coach helps, I’ll have lost my life for nothing, but it’s impossible to talk about it because no-one ever accepts to envision that, yes, when you reach 40 without capability to date regularly, well you’re fucked, I’d commit terrible things to make people admit that I’ve lost my life if I could, Why can’t people accept that, yes, it’s hard, I see uglier people than me succeed, I see total losers succeed, so yes, the only artifact I see is: I - irritate - women, they become between sarcastic and mean to me after knowing me for a few weeks. Could even be that I don’t ask early enough, that I don’t sexualize them enough, I’m always too careful about not stalking them and ensuring they don’t feel like a bag of meat, so maybe they’re just frustrated that I don’t kiss them on the second date. I don’t know, hypothesis! but that would at least be a fair explanation that I could work on. Instead, the only feedback I have is, that I’m selfish or whatever trait that you could judge anyone with - Let them first, I also donate to charities way more than friends, I’ve also belonged to more charities than much more of the population, I’ve also accompanied by best enemy through cancer, til he died with us playing the song he himself composed, this asshole got the most beautiful death he could imagine, I mean the accusation of selfishness or closed-mindedness doesn’t hold any cold-headed analysis.
  - yibg 3y ago
    I don’t understand your position here. You start out saying some people are blocked from success and imply your lack of success with women is an example. Then you say you don’t know if your lack of success is something you can control because no one has told you exactly what the issue is. Is your definition of being blocked anything that doesn’t just happen by itself?
daveed 3y ago
This story kind of misses the point, and there's a whole lot that goes into "try" and "try harder". Not everyone can do anything, but I think any individual person can do a lot. But are they trying and are they thinking about how they're trying?
User23 3y ago
> Of course I’m definitely not saying that because I’m single and have no talent in women That you are able to make an honest self-assessment really bodes well for you. While a lot of the pick up artist stuff is skeezy, anyone who has spent time in bar and nightclub culture has seen the general principles in action. The human mating market is a real thing, and both men and women have various patterns of behavior that can be observed and learned. That knowledge can be used to be a misogynistic cad, but it can also be used to form and strengthen true loving relationships. There are a lot of hucksters and scammers in the space unfortunately, so you have to prudently sift through the crap to get the useful information which is unfortunate when you're not entirely sure what the useful information is. One very reputable place to start though is with Robert Cialdini's books. He focuses more on persuasion in general, but he's legitimate and correct. It's really important to understand concepts like frame, assuming the sale, revealed preference, and especially social proof. > I irritate women. I can see it in their eyes, and there is no way around that Again, the fact that you're observant and honest enough to recognize this means that I am nearly certain you can mitigate or remedy whatever defect or defects that you have. The simplest although depending on your disposition perhaps not the easiest approach is to watch what men who are successful with women do and don't do, and then try to figure out possible things you're doing or not doing that are repulsing women. At that point it's just a matter of A/B testing with a large number of women, which can easily be done in any large city with a night life. It can be rough at first, but after a few times you realize the sun still shines and brightly and the ocean is just as lovely no matter how many girls reject you and rejection loses its sting. And of course since you're a man of means hiring a coach could be a very good idea, assuming you can find one who is trustworthy and ruthlessly honest.
nython 3y ago
It took me several frustrating years to figure it out, but eventually getting visibly fit and well groomed gave me enough leeway to bisect the bugs in my interpersonal communication protocols and algorithms.
- itchyouch 3y ago
  One of the obvious bugs to me is that, I think one of the most common and profound bugs men seem to have is in the active listening department. This one quality tends to be quite profound at setting men apart. No need to disagree, fix, suggest, or provide a different perspective. Listen and thoughtfully respond with empathy to what the woman is saying. Hopefully, that’s one of the interpersonal bugs you figured out. ;) Far too often I see: Woman: “My model of the world is X” Man: “Your model doesn’t make sense. This is my superior model.” Woman is irritated. Alternatively, merely responding with, “I never saw the model of the world that way. Tell me more. Why is X that way? What is Y?” Now she feels seen and heard. And provides the basis for men to also feel seen and heard as well. Hopefully, this comment can help the many men out there who have trouble with women. Not to mention, men tend to provide this exact response to other men, which compounds the irritation women tend to feel.
allenu 3y ago
It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling various self-improvement systems. If anybody follows their system and doesn't succeed, well, they either didn't try hard enough or they really didn't follow the plan as it was laid out. It's a foolproof way to show the next sucker that your system works.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Also the cornerstone of recommending diet and exercise as health advice.
  - donkey_oaty 3y ago
    Are diet and exercise not good health advice?
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Are most advice in self-help books not good productivity/happiness advice? The problem with both is that people who can follow them for effect already are following them. So in practice, diet and exercise is what I call "fuck off advice": the person you give it to, should they believe it, will try and try and not see much effect, and eventually fail - but the process will take 3-6 months or more, during which they won't bother you with their problems, and at the end of it, they'll blame themselves for not being good enough, and perhaps even see you as a good person who tried to help.
  - Gud 3y ago
    I mean, to me it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body. Why wouldn’t diet and exercise be the cornerstones of having a healthy life?
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      > it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body It's obvious in general - e.g. clearly poisonous things are clearly poisonous. Less so in specifics, as the body is good at extracting what it needs from ingested food, and discarding the rest; it works out as long as you provide the full range of the things the body needs. However, that wasn't my point. My point is, recommending change in diet and exercise regime as a solution to problems is about as effective as telling one the solution to money problems is to study nuclear physics and then join a bank as a quant. Yes, technically it works, but people who could do this are already doing this; for everyone else, it's a near-impossible task, given the constraints of their current adult life. Getting on what's currently considered healthy diet and good exercise regime, means trying to endure self-inflicted psychological torture and having non-productive but tiring activities cut into the amount of time you have in a day/week - for indefinite time period, but at least couple months, and uncertain gains. Not many adults can pull that off. Which is why they don't, which is why "diet and exercise" is what I call "fuck-off advice". For most who try, it's bound to fail, mostly for structural reasons, and will bring plenty of pain and guilt in the process.
xyzelement 3y ago
You've missed my point with both parts of your post, alas. I am not talking about guaranteed success, but about people who don't try the avenues that are available to them. Like if you are a deer and your family is getting killed by cars, have you tried not standing in the damn road? I know so many people who have an obvious next action available that would leave them no worse and likely better, but they don't try it. Which brings me to the second part of your post. What have you tried that could potentially lead you to be less irritating to women? Or at least, what could you try? I could come up with a list of 5+ things for you right now and I don't even know you.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  > I know so many people who have an obvious next action available that would leave them no worse and likely better, but they don't try it. Obvious to you, perhaps. But, who says it's obvious to them?
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    ... even when told.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    That's GP's point, I suppose - that people may have plenty of good moves available, but they've also built up near-instinctive defenses and repulsion fields around them - so even if they accidentally think or read about one of such options, they'll reject it as fast as it registers to them. It might be that the only way through those defenses is for someone else, or some situation, to force one to consider the option for a few more seconds or minutes. I know I have this problem myself - some steps seem unavailable until some third party just plain tells me, "yes, you are actually allowed to do this, and you already know nothing bad will happen".
    - xyzelement 3y ago
      I am the GP you are referring to and - thank you for explaining my point perhaps better than I did :)
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
CA is not a place to get laid. Go East, young man, go East and grow a pair.
- TurkishPoptart 3y ago
  What, like Boston? Way overpriced, no parking, shit weather....
  - eastbound 3y ago
    The incredible thing is, this map has stayed the same for 131 years now. SF has men: https://www.jonathansoma.com/singles/#4/7/2/0 https://www.jonathansoma.com/singles/#4/7/2/0
pdfernhout 3y ago
If you had two successful startups, maybe chances are that you don't put much time into other activities which includes dating and the relationships that can come from dating? If I said I was going to try to have a successful startup putting a couple hours a week into it now and then, what is the probability of success? So maybe the issue is going up a learning curve? If you do eventually find yourself in a relationship, here is some advice for making it work from Emma McAdam and also the Gottmans: https://courses.therapyinanutshell.com/relationship-skills https://courses.therapyinanutshell.com/relationship-skills https://www.gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-love/ https://www.gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-lov... The Gottmans also supply dating advice you can sign up for on their website, but I don't know what it is. I would guess though it is better than the "be an alpha male" advice you might find on a lot of internet sites. And here is advice specific to hard-driving successful men making relationships work: https://beyond-driven.com/insideout1 https://beyond-driven.com/insideout1 "Discover The New Method That Hundreds Of Modern Men Have Used To Save Their Marriage, Reignite Their Sex Life, And Even Transform Their Careers... without ever going to marriage counseling, reading countless "self-help" books, or even mentioning a thing to their wife" The core idea Tim Arrigo, guy behind that website, expresses in a related promo video is that the same conventional masculine traits that help me succeed in business (problem solving, suppressing emotions) lead to failures in their marriages. While I don't know the details of his approach, I've seen that theme before, like in the book "The Pleasure Trap" about how human behaviors to seek out salt, sweet, and fat (and conserve energy) that were so adaptive in our hunter/gatherer past lead to health disasters given our modern (processed) food supply. And I've also commented elsewhere on how people's traits that may help in one situation may hinder in another (like how paranoia may be useful for a programmer debugging complex code and being suspicious of every line but that paranoia may be corrosive in human relationships). Many techies tend towards high-functioning Asperger's. If so, these may be of interest too, since relationships involving one or two Aspies can have some special dynamics: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=aspergers+and+relationships https://duckduckgo.com/?q=aspergers+and+relationships On the other hand, maybe you just have been lucky so far? :-) As in, from a Philip Greenspun essay: https://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science https://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "Speaking of fertility... A $400/hour divorce litigator said "Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years. It turns out that I was sitting on something worth a lot more than a law degree." What's the cash value of fertility compared to working in science? ... A divorce litigator put it a little more simply: "There is no reason for a woman to go to medical school. If she wants to have the spending power of a doctor she can just have sex with three doctors." ... In some states, though not Wisconsin, a plaintiff's own earnings or earning potential can reduce the potential profits from child support. "A degree in poetry is a lot better than a degree in medicine when you're a child support plaintiff," observed one litigator, and added "for a woman with a functioning reproductive system, the decision to attend college and work is seldom an economically rational one in the United States."" No doubt there are various ways one can disagree with those selected divorce lawyer statements, of course. But they do suggest there can be potentially predatory "wrong women" out there if they believe those things. Of course, a woman in an unhappy relationship might also be more likely to drift in that direction of focusing on money? And the first links on building better relationships can help prevent that. All the best in building mutually healthy relationships and raising a happy family if that is what you want.
alasdair_ 3y ago
> I irritate women. Maybe some subset of women. Unlikely all women. Have you considered that perhaps bucketing a whole bunch of unique individuals into a single group may be a big part of the problem? I mean, if you expect to be irritating to someone before you even meet them, you probably will be kind of irritating. Try treating each person as unique and not assuming you know what they think before they have even met you?

safety1st 3y ago

> Some people, no matter how they work to build a startup, are blocked from success by external factors, on which they can do nothing. What are the factors specifically? How are you defining success? My definition is "You built a profitable business" and there are so many small businesses doing this across the world, I can't really think of external factors that are true deal breakers except perhaps very bad health, it's hard to start a business when you're bedridden. Millions of people are starting businesses all the time in incredibly limited situations like a street food cart in a slum in India and succeeding.

Mezzie 3y ago
Not who you responded to, but I have a disability (Multiple Sclerosis) that pretty much precludes me from building a successful business. Starting a successful, profitable business usually requires both working around the clock at first in order to establish it and the ability to forego health insurance/healthcare for a period of time. If I'm lucky I have 10 functioning hours a day and I need to make money to not starve so 8 is taken up with a full time job (luckily I walk 5 minutes to work so no commute). I also still need to shower, eat, and exercise to keep my physical condition from deteriorating. On bad days I'm sneaking in naps at work because I have less than 8 hours of good functioning. Weekends are usually spent recovering (sleep/migraine). Basically anything that eats up your time. Disability is just an example problem that nobody can blame on us. Edit: It doesn't need to be severe, which is why I mention it. I'm actually better off than 95% of MS patients.
- pdfernhout 3y ago
  You probably know this, but Dr. Terry Wahls, MD, and Nicole Apelian, PhD herbalist are two professionals with MS who have used diet and such to manage their MS. See also Dr. Joel Fuhrman: https://www.drfuhrman.com/health-concerns/9/multiple-sclerosis https://www.drfuhrman.com/health-concerns/9/multiple-scleros... His plan also has a lot of success with reducing or eliminating migraines for many people. Best of luck with managing MS.
bjelkeman-again 3y ago
I think it is fair to say that there is a difference between starting a business you can survive on and one which will make you a millionaire. These often get mixed, especially on HN.

FredPret 3y ago

While anyone might not be able to hit the big time, most skills are learnable / improvable.

inconceivable 3y ago

i also sold my startup to a good outcome and ran the business very profitably for years and i agree that there are some things that can not be taught - but that doesn't mean they can't be learned if you have the right mental models. at one point i was terrible at dating / women but over the years i've gotten a lot better than where i started. and yes, there are some people who are just hopeless because they refuse to let go of weird mental hangups that aren't based in reality. here are some personal observations which you may or may not agree with. 1. you need to be in reasonable shape. pay no attention to the exceptions to this rule, they don't apply to you. so get fit however you want. the more the better. nobody wants to fuck a slug. 2. you don't NEED money, but it certainly doesn't hurt. truly not caring about bills/expenses exudes something you can't fake. broke dudes can truly not care about bills also, from the other side. counter-intuitive, right? if you were broke, could you fake it convincingly? no, probably not. because the exceptions don't apply to you. 3. if you show an ounce, a smidge, one iota, a mere hint of neediness, you're fuckin' GONE. again, pay no attention to the exceptions because they don't apply to you. this can be anything from needing to text/communicate way too often, or weighing other peoples' opinions too much, or being unsure of how to deal with a situation. if you're confused about life just keep it to yourself and ask your male friends or older guys. being confident and wrong is an easy fix if you're a fast learner. being a wishy washy dork is unforgiveable. 4. learn how to dress well in your own style. the exceptions don't apply to you. everyone has their own style so there's not much to say here other than make sure everything fits. 5. being good at sex matters a lot, or at least not terrible. you need a solid baseline upon which to improve. this may seem like a catch-22 because it is. catch-22 is the base layer of reality of the male condition. if you want success you need to figure it out, just like in business. just fucking figure it out, smart guy. the exceptions don't apply to you. 6. height and race matters a lot. if you're short or not white you need to work harder at everything, unless you are exceptional, which you clearly are not. whether or not this is worth it is up to you. if the threshold for effort is deemed to be too much, that's a valid response to a skewed market. just know that every other guy out there is hoping you give up. 7. a woman can break up with you or dump you or ghost you for absolutely no reason at all even if you are the perfect ideal person on paper. this is a non-deterministic field of outcomes. if you get upset at this, you need to grow up. 8. persistence in the face of overwhelming odds against you is how you succeed in business, it applies here also. some are lucky, they are exceptional, and you are not.

criddell 3y ago

Are you saying you irritate women and it’s due to external factors over which you have no control? I would bet a good therapist or dating coach could help you.

eastbound 3y ago
I irritate women, it may or may not be under my control, for example if it’s due to my race then it’s not, if it’s due to societal clichés then it’s not; and for what is under my control, I have seen for about $10k of psychologists and I was never told the defect I have, probably because that would discourage me, instead they say there’s always a chance, never try never know, ask them out and blah blah blah. I’d love if someone told me my truth, but until then, I can’t do much. Granted I didn’t try a dating coach, I don’t know where to find them, their answers will always be “pay me $100 and believe in yourself”, and yes I’m very afraid that if I find out a dating coach helps, I’ll have lost my life for nothing, but it’s impossible to talk about it because no-one ever accepts to envision that, yes, when you reach 40 without capability to date regularly, well you’re fucked, I’d commit terrible things to make people admit that I’ve lost my life if I could, Why can’t people accept that, yes, it’s hard, I see uglier people than me succeed, I see total losers succeed, so yes, the only artifact I see is: I - irritate - women, they become between sarcastic and mean to me after knowing me for a few weeks. Could even be that I don’t ask early enough, that I don’t sexualize them enough, I’m always too careful about not stalking them and ensuring they don’t feel like a bag of meat, so maybe they’re just frustrated that I don’t kiss them on the second date. I don’t know, hypothesis! but that would at least be a fair explanation that I could work on. Instead, the only feedback I have is, that I’m selfish or whatever trait that you could judge anyone with - Let them first, I also donate to charities way more than friends, I’ve also belonged to more charities than much more of the population, I’ve also accompanied by best enemy through cancer, til he died with us playing the song he himself composed, this asshole got the most beautiful death he could imagine, I mean the accusation of selfishness or closed-mindedness doesn’t hold any cold-headed analysis.
- yibg 3y ago
  I don’t understand your position here. You start out saying some people are blocked from success and imply your lack of success with women is an example. Then you say you don’t know if your lack of success is something you can control because no one has told you exactly what the issue is. Is your definition of being blocked anything that doesn’t just happen by itself?

daveed 3y ago

This story kind of misses the point, and there's a whole lot that goes into "try" and "try harder". Not everyone can do anything, but I think any individual person can do a lot. But are they trying and are they thinking about how they're trying?

User23 3y ago

> Of course I’m definitely not saying that because I’m single and have no talent in women That you are able to make an honest self-assessment really bodes well for you. While a lot of the pick up artist stuff is skeezy, anyone who has spent time in bar and nightclub culture has seen the general principles in action. The human mating market is a real thing, and both men and women have various patterns of behavior that can be observed and learned. That knowledge can be used to be a misogynistic cad, but it can also be used to form and strengthen true loving relationships. There are a lot of hucksters and scammers in the space unfortunately, so you have to prudently sift through the crap to get the useful information which is unfortunate when you're not entirely sure what the useful information is. One very reputable place to start though is with Robert Cialdini's books. He focuses more on persuasion in general, but he's legitimate and correct. It's really important to understand concepts like frame, assuming the sale, revealed preference, and especially social proof. > I irritate women. I can see it in their eyes, and there is no way around that Again, the fact that you're observant and honest enough to recognize this means that I am nearly certain you can mitigate or remedy whatever defect or defects that you have. The simplest although depending on your disposition perhaps not the easiest approach is to watch what men who are successful with women do and don't do, and then try to figure out possible things you're doing or not doing that are repulsing women. At that point it's just a matter of A/B testing with a large number of women, which can easily be done in any large city with a night life. It can be rough at first, but after a few times you realize the sun still shines and brightly and the ocean is just as lovely no matter how many girls reject you and rejection loses its sting. And of course since you're a man of means hiring a coach could be a very good idea, assuming you can find one who is trustworthy and ruthlessly honest.

nython 3y ago

It took me several frustrating years to figure it out, but eventually getting visibly fit and well groomed gave me enough leeway to bisect the bugs in my interpersonal communication protocols and algorithms.

itchyouch 3y ago
One of the obvious bugs to me is that, I think one of the most common and profound bugs men seem to have is in the active listening department. This one quality tends to be quite profound at setting men apart. No need to disagree, fix, suggest, or provide a different perspective. Listen and thoughtfully respond with empathy to what the woman is saying. Hopefully, that’s one of the interpersonal bugs you figured out. ;) Far too often I see: Woman: “My model of the world is X” Man: “Your model doesn’t make sense. This is my superior model.” Woman is irritated. Alternatively, merely responding with, “I never saw the model of the world that way. Tell me more. Why is X that way? What is Y?” Now she feels seen and heard. And provides the basis for men to also feel seen and heard as well. Hopefully, this comment can help the many men out there who have trouble with women. Not to mention, men tend to provide this exact response to other men, which compounds the irritation women tend to feel.

allenu 3y ago

It's funny because the idea of "if you didn't succeed, you didn't try hard enough" is a cornerstone of the self-help industry and the charlatans peddling various self-improvement systems. If anybody follows their system and doesn't succeed, well, they either didn't try hard enough or they really didn't follow the plan as it was laid out. It's a foolproof way to show the next sucker that your system works.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Also the cornerstone of recommending diet and exercise as health advice.
- donkey_oaty 3y ago
  Are diet and exercise not good health advice?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Are most advice in self-help books not good productivity/happiness advice? The problem with both is that people who can follow them for effect already are following them. So in practice, diet and exercise is what I call "fuck off advice": the person you give it to, should they believe it, will try and try and not see much effect, and eventually fail - but the process will take 3-6 months or more, during which they won't bother you with their problems, and at the end of it, they'll blame themselves for not being good enough, and perhaps even see you as a good person who tried to help.
- Gud 3y ago
  I mean, to me it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body. Why wouldn’t diet and exercise be the cornerstones of having a healthy life?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > it seems obvious that what you put into your body will either have a positive or detrimental effect on your body It's obvious in general - e.g. clearly poisonous things are clearly poisonous. Less so in specifics, as the body is good at extracting what it needs from ingested food, and discarding the rest; it works out as long as you provide the full range of the things the body needs. However, that wasn't my point. My point is, recommending change in diet and exercise regime as a solution to problems is about as effective as telling one the solution to money problems is to study nuclear physics and then join a bank as a quant. Yes, technically it works, but people who could do this are already doing this; for everyone else, it's a near-impossible task, given the constraints of their current adult life. Getting on what's currently considered healthy diet and good exercise regime, means trying to endure self-inflicted psychological torture and having non-productive but tiring activities cut into the amount of time you have in a day/week - for indefinite time period, but at least couple months, and uncertain gains. Not many adults can pull that off. Which is why they don't, which is why "diet and exercise" is what I call "fuck-off advice". For most who try, it's bound to fail, mostly for structural reasons, and will bring plenty of pain and guilt in the process.

xyzelement 3y ago

You've missed my point with both parts of your post, alas. I am not talking about guaranteed success, but about people who don't try the avenues that are available to them. Like if you are a deer and your family is getting killed by cars, have you tried not standing in the damn road? I know so many people who have an obvious next action available that would leave them no worse and likely better, but they don't try it. Which brings me to the second part of your post. What have you tried that could potentially lead you to be less irritating to women? Or at least, what could you try? I could come up with a list of 5+ things for you right now and I don't even know you.

Paul-Craft 3y ago
> I know so many people who have an obvious next action available that would leave them no worse and likely better, but they don't try it. Obvious to you, perhaps. But, who says it's obvious to them?
- xyzelement 3y ago
  ... even when told.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  That's GP's point, I suppose - that people may have plenty of good moves available, but they've also built up near-instinctive defenses and repulsion fields around them - so even if they accidentally think or read about one of such options, they'll reject it as fast as it registers to them. It might be that the only way through those defenses is for someone else, or some situation, to force one to consider the option for a few more seconds or minutes. I know I have this problem myself - some steps seem unavailable until some third party just plain tells me, "yes, you are actually allowed to do this, and you already know nothing bad will happen".
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    I am the GP you are referring to and - thank you for explaining my point perhaps better than I did :)

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

CA is not a place to get laid. Go East, young man, go East and grow a pair.

TurkishPoptart 3y ago
What, like Boston? Way overpriced, no parking, shit weather....
- eastbound 3y ago
  The incredible thing is, this map has stayed the same for 131 years now. SF has men: https://www.jonathansoma.com/singles/#4/7/2/0 https://www.jonathansoma.com/singles/#4/7/2/0

pdfernhout 3y ago

If you had two successful startups, maybe chances are that you don't put much time into other activities which includes dating and the relationships that can come from dating? If I said I was going to try to have a successful startup putting a couple hours a week into it now and then, what is the probability of success? So maybe the issue is going up a learning curve? If you do eventually find yourself in a relationship, here is some advice for making it work from Emma McAdam and also the Gottmans: https://courses.therapyinanutshell.com/relationship-skills https://courses.therapyinanutshell.com/relationship-skills https://www.gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-love/ https://www.gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-lov... The Gottmans also supply dating advice you can sign up for on their website, but I don't know what it is. I would guess though it is better than the "be an alpha male" advice you might find on a lot of internet sites. And here is advice specific to hard-driving successful men making relationships work: https://beyond-driven.com/insideout1 https://beyond-driven.com/insideout1 "Discover The New Method That Hundreds Of Modern Men Have Used To Save Their Marriage, Reignite Their Sex Life, And Even Transform Their Careers... without ever going to marriage counseling, reading countless "self-help" books, or even mentioning a thing to their wife" The core idea Tim Arrigo, guy behind that website, expresses in a related promo video is that the same conventional masculine traits that help me succeed in business (problem solving, suppressing emotions) lead to failures in their marriages. While I don't know the details of his approach, I've seen that theme before, like in the book "The Pleasure Trap" about how human behaviors to seek out salt, sweet, and fat (and conserve energy) that were so adaptive in our hunter/gatherer past lead to health disasters given our modern (processed) food supply. And I've also commented elsewhere on how people's traits that may help in one situation may hinder in another (like how paranoia may be useful for a programmer debugging complex code and being suspicious of every line but that paranoia may be corrosive in human relationships). Many techies tend towards high-functioning Asperger's. If so, these may be of interest too, since relationships involving one or two Aspies can have some special dynamics: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=aspergers+and+relationships https://duckduckgo.com/?q=aspergers+and+relationships On the other hand, maybe you just have been lucky so far? :-) As in, from a Philip Greenspun essay: https://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science https://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "Speaking of fertility... A $400/hour divorce litigator said "Knowing what I know now, I could have made a lot more money going to a bar and working for one night than I have made by going to college, law school, and working for 20 years. It turns out that I was sitting on something worth a lot more than a law degree." What's the cash value of fertility compared to working in science? ... A divorce litigator put it a little more simply: "There is no reason for a woman to go to medical school. If she wants to have the spending power of a doctor she can just have sex with three doctors." ... In some states, though not Wisconsin, a plaintiff's own earnings or earning potential can reduce the potential profits from child support. "A degree in poetry is a lot better than a degree in medicine when you're a child support plaintiff," observed one litigator, and added "for a woman with a functioning reproductive system, the decision to attend college and work is seldom an economically rational one in the United States."" No doubt there are various ways one can disagree with those selected divorce lawyer statements, of course. But they do suggest there can be potentially predatory "wrong women" out there if they believe those things. Of course, a woman in an unhappy relationship might also be more likely to drift in that direction of focusing on money? And the first links on building better relationships can help prevent that. All the best in building mutually healthy relationships and raising a happy family if that is what you want.

alasdair_ 3y ago

> I irritate women. Maybe some subset of women. Unlikely all women. Have you considered that perhaps bucketing a whole bunch of unique individuals into a single group may be a big part of the problem? I mean, if you expect to be irritating to someone before you even meet them, you probably will be kind of irritating. Try treating each person as unique and not assuming you know what they think before they have even met you?