38 ms·

What did he lie about?

ramraj07 3y ago
Misrepresented and made up discussions with Apollo app creator. Then caught red handed when the creator released recordings of those calls.
- JshWright 3y ago
  That's only the most recent incident... A few years back he was caught silently editing users posts that were critical of him.
quitit 3y ago
Steve Huffman, aka Spez, falsely claimed that Apollo creator (Christian Selig) had threatened and blackmailed Reddit for $10M. The facts are that no threat nor blackmail attempt was made and Spez had entirely invented and spread the false claims as an attempt to discredit Selig. In response to the false claims, Christian Selig released a recording of the phone call that disproved the claim and cleared his name. As Selig is in Canada, he was legally entitled to record and release the phone call. Huffman took umbrage at this action because it revealed Huffman's deceptive conduct. Later in a Reddit "AMA", Huffman continued stating falsehoods about interactions with Selig, in spite of the evidence. https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on...
- CommitSyn 3y ago
  Also that the RIF developer didn't want to work with them, which emails showed was false. There were 4-5 other things that are escaping me at the moment.
  - flutas 3y ago
    > Also that the RIF developer didn't want to work with them, which emails showed was false. Hadn't heard that one, so thanks for mentioning it. Link for others[0]. Interestingly enough something else is mentioned in the article which is even more damning for Spez. > RIF was paying a “sizable revenue share” to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong’s tenure as CEO. (...) Reddit terminated the agreement in 2016 — which was the year after Huffman took over as CEO. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fun-developer-ceo-steve-huffman https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fu...
- stjohnswarts 3y ago
  You can record conversation in lots of US states as well as long as one party on the call knows it's happening. Just thought I'd toss that out there.
- trogdor 3y ago
  >Spez had entirely invented and spread the false claims That is not exactly true. It sounds like there was a genuine misunderstanding during their call, and that Huffman might have believed - for a portion of the call - that a blackmail attempt was happening. If you listen to the audio, it really does sound like a blackmail attempt. At least that's how I heard it. It also seemed clear that Huffman no longer believed that he had been blackmailed by the end of the call. But it wasn't "entirely invented," and I actually think that Huffman might not have fully believed Selig's explanation of his 'pay me $10 million to make this go away' statement (or whatever Selig's exact language was). Separately, from what I recall, Huffman did not accuse Selig of illegally recording their phone call. Huffman took umbrage over the release of what, IIRC, he referred to as a private conversation, stating that he did not see how he could possibly do business with Selig after that. In fairness, Huffman's statement makes sense in isolation - regardless of whether the call was legally recorded. Which it seems to have been. I think that Huffman looks really bad in all this. But that's a reason to be particularly careful about accuracy in our statements about what happened.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    In fact, it's common for an extortion attempt to be floated in that way leaving some plausible deniability for the one attempting extortion in case they are rebuffed. It's also common for the other party to seemingly accept the reframing of it to move on even though they internally believe that extortion was floated.
    - trogdor 3y ago
      I know. I'm just trying to stick to the facts. (And, interestingly, being downvoted for it. Despite no one presenting evidence that my account of what happened is wrong.)
  - haswell 3y ago
    > Huffman took umbrage over the release of what, IIRC, he referred to as a private conversation He “took umbrage” after he publicly called out Selig for threatening Reddit, a thing that did not happen, and is immediately made obvious by the Reddit rep apologizing for the misunderstanding repeatedly. Framing this as “Huffman was mad about Selig releasing a private discussion” is extremely misleading, and ignores the fact that Selig was basically forced to do so by Huffman’s public misrepresentation of that private conversation. If Huffman doesn’t want a private conversation released, a good start would be avoiding misleading public statements about that private conversation. > In fairness, Huffman's statement makes sense in isolation You can make just about anything make sense in isolation, but this doesn’t mean that it makes sense in the real world. Removing context is as good as lying in many situations, and this is one of those situations.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  The recording did not disprove the claim.
  - quitit 3y ago
    It's not a matter of opinion, the recording did not include a threat or blackmail. Asking to be bought, even if done so coyly, is neither extortion nor blackmail. Blackmail is a threat of revealing damaging information. That didn't happen. Extortion is a threat of consequences. However it's clear that Selig can't enact consequences on Reddit. It's Reddit who can disable Apollo's API key. Selig can't render any kind of damage onto Reddit. This is further supported by the fact that Selig has no choice but to discontinue the app and will take a loss on the refunding of subscriptions. Additionally the provided context of the conversation matches the discussions that Reddit has been having with other developers: i.e. API access and the future costs of that. If one wishes to set a low bar for extortion: Then it would be Reddit attempting to extort 3rd party app developers by levying unrealistic API access costs, effectively ending their businesses. A concept that could actually hold water as Reddit develops a competitor app.
    - dizhn 3y ago
      I think parent means there might be another conversation which was not released.
      - themitigating 3y ago
        "We have no evidence he's guilty of murder BUT what if there might evidence. That's all I need to make an accusation"
        dizhn 3y ago
        Claim: "you called me an ass on the phone", Proof: "here's a call recording in which I say no such thing". Don't you think the analogy holds?
xtracto 3y ago
I just want to echo the OTHER completely astounding thing Hufman did: Back when r/the_donald was a thing, the guy edited posts from other people to change the narrative. Now, I dont subscribe to the ideas of the morons in the_donald (I'm even ot from the USA) but I really took offense at what he did... like, what freaking integrity can a person have, when he does that kind of sleazy things. Not even CmdrTaco or his team did it with all the trolls in Slashdoy.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  That's not the only thing either. He also unpersoned Aaron Swartz, removing him from the Reddit Co-founder page, and saying that he wasn't really a founder... After Swartz died. Which is just incredibly scummy. And then there were the comments about owning slaves after an apocalypse. And then there's the Ghislaine Maxwell / maxwellhill theories [0], which bring the Swartz stuff to a very dark place... 0 - https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/r45a5n/here_is_the_evidence_that_reddit_user_maxwellhill/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/r45a5n/here_is_...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Misrepresented and made up discussions with Apollo app creator. Then caught red handed when the creator released recordings of those calls.

JshWright 3y ago
That's only the most recent incident... A few years back he was caught silently editing users posts that were critical of him.

quitit 3y ago

Steve Huffman, aka Spez, falsely claimed that Apollo creator (Christian Selig) had threatened and blackmailed Reddit for $10M. The facts are that no threat nor blackmail attempt was made and Spez had entirely invented and spread the false claims as an attempt to discredit Selig. In response to the false claims, Christian Selig released a recording of the phone call that disproved the claim and cleared his name. As Selig is in Canada, he was legally entitled to record and release the phone call. Huffman took umbrage at this action because it revealed Huffman's deceptive conduct. Later in a Reddit "AMA", Huffman continued stating falsehoods about interactions with Selig, in spite of the evidence. https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama/?guccounter=1 https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on...

CommitSyn 3y ago
Also that the RIF developer didn't want to work with them, which emails showed was false. There were 4-5 other things that are escaping me at the moment.
- flutas 3y ago
  > Also that the RIF developer didn't want to work with them, which emails showed was false. Hadn't heard that one, so thanks for mentioning it. Link for others[0]. Interestingly enough something else is mentioned in the article which is even more damning for Spez. > RIF was paying a “sizable revenue share” to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong’s tenure as CEO. (...) Reddit terminated the agreement in 2016 — which was the year after Huffman took over as CEO. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fun-developer-ceo-steve-huffman https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fu...
stjohnswarts 3y ago
You can record conversation in lots of US states as well as long as one party on the call knows it's happening. Just thought I'd toss that out there.
trogdor 3y ago
>Spez had entirely invented and spread the false claims That is not exactly true. It sounds like there was a genuine misunderstanding during their call, and that Huffman might have believed - for a portion of the call - that a blackmail attempt was happening. If you listen to the audio, it really does sound like a blackmail attempt. At least that's how I heard it. It also seemed clear that Huffman no longer believed that he had been blackmailed by the end of the call. But it wasn't "entirely invented," and I actually think that Huffman might not have fully believed Selig's explanation of his 'pay me $10 million to make this go away' statement (or whatever Selig's exact language was). Separately, from what I recall, Huffman did not accuse Selig of illegally recording their phone call. Huffman took umbrage over the release of what, IIRC, he referred to as a private conversation, stating that he did not see how he could possibly do business with Selig after that. In fairness, Huffman's statement makes sense in isolation - regardless of whether the call was legally recorded. Which it seems to have been. I think that Huffman looks really bad in all this. But that's a reason to be particularly careful about accuracy in our statements about what happened.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  In fact, it's common for an extortion attempt to be floated in that way leaving some plausible deniability for the one attempting extortion in case they are rebuffed. It's also common for the other party to seemingly accept the reframing of it to move on even though they internally believe that extortion was floated.
  - trogdor 3y ago
    I know. I'm just trying to stick to the facts. (And, interestingly, being downvoted for it. Despite no one presenting evidence that my account of what happened is wrong.)
- haswell 3y ago
  > Huffman took umbrage over the release of what, IIRC, he referred to as a private conversation He “took umbrage” after he publicly called out Selig for threatening Reddit, a thing that did not happen, and is immediately made obvious by the Reddit rep apologizing for the misunderstanding repeatedly. Framing this as “Huffman was mad about Selig releasing a private discussion” is extremely misleading, and ignores the fact that Selig was basically forced to do so by Huffman’s public misrepresentation of that private conversation. If Huffman doesn’t want a private conversation released, a good start would be avoiding misleading public statements about that private conversation. > In fairness, Huffman's statement makes sense in isolation You can make just about anything make sense in isolation, but this doesn’t mean that it makes sense in the real world. Removing context is as good as lying in many situations, and this is one of those situations.
ahahahahah 3y ago
The recording did not disprove the claim.
- quitit 3y ago
  It's not a matter of opinion, the recording did not include a threat or blackmail. Asking to be bought, even if done so coyly, is neither extortion nor blackmail. Blackmail is a threat of revealing damaging information. That didn't happen. Extortion is a threat of consequences. However it's clear that Selig can't enact consequences on Reddit. It's Reddit who can disable Apollo's API key. Selig can't render any kind of damage onto Reddit. This is further supported by the fact that Selig has no choice but to discontinue the app and will take a loss on the refunding of subscriptions. Additionally the provided context of the conversation matches the discussions that Reddit has been having with other developers: i.e. API access and the future costs of that. If one wishes to set a low bar for extortion: Then it would be Reddit attempting to extort 3rd party app developers by levying unrealistic API access costs, effectively ending their businesses. A concept that could actually hold water as Reddit develops a competitor app.
  - dizhn 3y ago
    I think parent means there might be another conversation which was not released.
    - themitigating 3y ago
      "We have no evidence he's guilty of murder BUT what if there might evidence. That's all I need to make an accusation"
      - dizhn 3y ago
        Claim: "you called me an ass on the phone", Proof: "here's a call recording in which I say no such thing". Don't you think the analogy holds?

xtracto 3y ago

I just want to echo the OTHER completely astounding thing Hufman did: Back when r/the_donald was a thing, the guy edited posts from other people to change the narrative. Now, I dont subscribe to the ideas of the morons in the_donald (I'm even ot from the USA) but I really took offense at what he did... like, what freaking integrity can a person have, when he does that kind of sleazy things. Not even CmdrTaco or his team did it with all the trolls in Slashdoy.

mandmandam 3y ago
That's not the only thing either. He also unpersoned Aaron Swartz, removing him from the Reddit Co-founder page, and saying that he wasn't really a founder... After Swartz died. Which is just incredibly scummy. And then there were the comments about owning slaves after an apocalypse. And then there's the Ghislaine Maxwell / maxwellhill theories [0], which bring the Swartz stuff to a very dark place... 0 - https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/r45a5n/here_is_the_evidence_that_reddit_user_maxwellhill/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/r45a5n/here_is_...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]