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Ladybird is currently far from competetive. Andreas himself told that his loose goal for Ladybird is to be able to render YouTube page correctly and play video

by badpun 3y ago

Ladybird is currently far from competetive. Andreas himself told that his loose goal for Ladybird is to be able to render YouTube page correctly and play video with sound - 5 years from now.

marginalia_nu 3y ago
I'm looking mostly at what it could be. Ladybird has every potential of becoming the Linux of web browsers. And it took Linux what, over a decade to mostly displace the competition in the server space. These types of projects are long term, but public perception matters. Making waves matters. The audacious possibility that it might just succeed matters.
- badpun 3y ago
  Linux is Linux thanks to large involvement of big tech. It remains to be seen if any Big Tech companies would be interested in seriously supporting development of an open source browser.
  - samwillis 3y ago
    > It remains to be seen if any Big Tech companies would be interested in seriously supporting development of an open source browser. You're missing a "new" or "another" in that sentence.
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    Big tech used Linux to wage a proxy war against Microsoft from a safe distance without needing to actually commit to anything. Linus Torvalds had nothing to his name when he started working on Linux. He was just some kid from Finland, but the audacity the project gave it attention and visibility, and visibility came with funding. I think in general a hint of audacity along with being able to demonstrate capabilities to follow through is a great recipe for having people throw money at you, and the more money you have to work with, the more options you have to keep demonstrating what you can do. A lot of people have a vested interest in shaking up the tech world. It's just a matter of finding the right fuses to light.
    - abnercoimbre 3y ago
      > A lot of people have a vested interest in shaking up the tech world. I'd imagine you're one of us, considering you went full-time on your search engine :) We had Andreas demo his OS / browser [0] at Handmade Cities [1]. These conferences are what I run full-time independently. I'm excited to see a flourishing of audacity, so to speak! [0] https://vimeo.com/641406697 https://vimeo.com/641406697 [1] https://handmadecities.com https://handmadecities.com
      - marginalia_nu 3y ago
        Yeah. Andreas is an inspiration and a trailblazer, and although we're on slightly different journeys, we have similar ambitions I think :D It's weird, it's become this truth in software development that one should lower their ambitions, try to do something small and not overextend. Don't try to reinvent the wheel, stay in your lane. Which I guess is sage advice for a beginner, but I think it sort of stuck with the developer hive mind and as a result, what you get is these small low-impact projects instead of this kind of a moonshot. While I don't think just anyone could make a browser or a search engine, I also don't think most who could would ever think to try because of these self-imposed limitations.
- nicoburns 3y ago
  Isn't Firefox already the Linux of web browsers?
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    Given Firefox is primarily funded by Google handouts ostensibly as token competition to keep antitrust suits off their ass, I wouldn't say so.
    - tannhaeuser 3y ago
      I'd say to keep antitrust suits off their ass is even too strong a formulation ;) considering US antitrust is what has led the acquisition of DoubleClick and YouTube by Google happen (and that of WhatsApp by Facebook). Time to hold those responsible for this ... responsible.
      - marginalia_nu 3y ago
        Keep in mind Microsoft was a legal technicality away from being broken up. Lessons were learned from that.
  - LeFantome 3y ago
    As a multi-decade long Firefox user, I am going to say no. Firefox is produced by a single company and its users are completely beholden to the choices that the company makes. In some ways, Chromium is closer to being the Linux of browsers. There are multiple “distributions” or instances of the technology ( Chrome, Edge, Brave, and others ). There is at least some collaboration on the core. Chromium is not developed nearly as collaboratively as Linux though and certainly it is dominated by Google. What we need is something like Ladybird which is community driven prior to corporate involvement and that is led by that community and not by a company. Not that we have not lost this opportunity before. KHTML was community driven before Apple co-opted it for WebKit which Google later forked to Blink. Ladybird is perhaps already in a better spot being cross-platform vs only the browser in SerenityOS. It is also a “complete” project with JavaScript and multimedia already built in. Let’s work to keep the project together as a browser and not chase bits of it getting ripped off and taken elsewhere.

by badpun 3y ago

Ladybird is currently far from competetive. Andreas himself told that his loose goal for Ladybird is to be able to render YouTube page correctly and play video with sound - 5 years from now.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

I'm looking mostly at what it could be. Ladybird has every potential of becoming the Linux of web browsers. And it took Linux what, over a decade to mostly displace the competition in the server space. These types of projects are long term, but public perception matters. Making waves matters. The audacious possibility that it might just succeed matters.

badpun 3y ago
Linux is Linux thanks to large involvement of big tech. It remains to be seen if any Big Tech companies would be interested in seriously supporting development of an open source browser.
- samwillis 3y ago
  > It remains to be seen if any Big Tech companies would be interested in seriously supporting development of an open source browser. You're missing a "new" or "another" in that sentence.
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  Big tech used Linux to wage a proxy war against Microsoft from a safe distance without needing to actually commit to anything. Linus Torvalds had nothing to his name when he started working on Linux. He was just some kid from Finland, but the audacity the project gave it attention and visibility, and visibility came with funding. I think in general a hint of audacity along with being able to demonstrate capabilities to follow through is a great recipe for having people throw money at you, and the more money you have to work with, the more options you have to keep demonstrating what you can do. A lot of people have a vested interest in shaking up the tech world. It's just a matter of finding the right fuses to light.
  - abnercoimbre 3y ago
    > A lot of people have a vested interest in shaking up the tech world. I'd imagine you're one of us, considering you went full-time on your search engine :) We had Andreas demo his OS / browser [0] at Handmade Cities [1]. These conferences are what I run full-time independently. I'm excited to see a flourishing of audacity, so to speak! [0] https://vimeo.com/641406697 https://vimeo.com/641406697 [1] https://handmadecities.com https://handmadecities.com
    - marginalia_nu 3y ago
      Yeah. Andreas is an inspiration and a trailblazer, and although we're on slightly different journeys, we have similar ambitions I think :D It's weird, it's become this truth in software development that one should lower their ambitions, try to do something small and not overextend. Don't try to reinvent the wheel, stay in your lane. Which I guess is sage advice for a beginner, but I think it sort of stuck with the developer hive mind and as a result, what you get is these small low-impact projects instead of this kind of a moonshot. While I don't think just anyone could make a browser or a search engine, I also don't think most who could would ever think to try because of these self-imposed limitations.
nicoburns 3y ago
Isn't Firefox already the Linux of web browsers?
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  Given Firefox is primarily funded by Google handouts ostensibly as token competition to keep antitrust suits off their ass, I wouldn't say so.
  - tannhaeuser 3y ago
    I'd say to keep antitrust suits off their ass is even too strong a formulation ;) considering US antitrust is what has led the acquisition of DoubleClick and YouTube by Google happen (and that of WhatsApp by Facebook). Time to hold those responsible for this ... responsible.
    - marginalia_nu 3y ago
      Keep in mind Microsoft was a legal technicality away from being broken up. Lessons were learned from that.
- LeFantome 3y ago
  As a multi-decade long Firefox user, I am going to say no. Firefox is produced by a single company and its users are completely beholden to the choices that the company makes. In some ways, Chromium is closer to being the Linux of browsers. There are multiple “distributions” or instances of the technology ( Chrome, Edge, Brave, and others ). There is at least some collaboration on the core. Chromium is not developed nearly as collaboratively as Linux though and certainly it is dominated by Google. What we need is something like Ladybird which is community driven prior to corporate involvement and that is led by that community and not by a company. Not that we have not lost this opportunity before. KHTML was community driven before Apple co-opted it for WebKit which Google later forked to Blink. Ladybird is perhaps already in a better spot being cross-platform vs only the browser in SerenityOS. It is also a “complete” project with JavaScript and multimedia already built in. Let’s work to keep the project together as a browser and not chase bits of it getting ripped off and taken elsewhere.