5 ms·

An evolutionary pressure may indeed exist that encourages the synchronization of brain patterns in situations involving power dynamics between individuals with

An evolutionary pressure may indeed exist that encourages the synchronization of brain patterns in situations involving power dynamics between individuals with varying levels of authority. This could go beyond mere synchronization, potentially favoring the adaptability of individuals in subordinate roles whose brains can align with those in dominant positions. This capability could have enhanced survival within structured social systems throughout human history. Moreover, if brain synchronization is a reality, it might suggest the possibility of memory linkage across spatial distances. This notion aligns with the principle that neurons which fire together wire together. Consequently, if individuals' brains are synchronizing, their neurons may be forming connections, or wiring together, across distinct locations.

lapama 3y ago
This is in the thin line between telepathy and network science, and provides an interesting basis to research further. Would there be a possible link to quantum entanglement?
- drowsspa 3y ago
  No.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  Only if you're a Traveler.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Spooky action at a distance cannot transmit information.
  - lapama 3y ago
    Since I am an ignorant on quantum, please would you mind providing a reference?
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      There is this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518 https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518, or do you want a paper? I don't have a paper link, I am not that deep into it.
      - lapama 3y ago
        I can dig from here, thanks a lot!
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  I think we're taking the fact that the article says "similar" a lot and running too far with it. As they say, it only makes sense that similar areas of the brain would activate when processing similar stimuli. That's not telepathy or entanglement.
- dataviz1000 3y ago
  The article discussed several experiments conducted on bats. Bats possess the remarkable ability to echolocate using high-frequency waves, similar to sonar. Just as humans do, bats ascertain the direction of a sound wave by comparing the time intervals at which the sound reaches each ear. The crux of the matter is that, much like humans, bats can demonstrate exceptional sensitivity. One intriguing experiment I would consider involves determining the distance at which an isolated bat can remain from its colony while maintaining synchronized brain waves. Given that bats can echolocate, their auditory sensitivity is incredibly high. If their synchronization is based on vocalizations, and the synchronized activity of scores or even hundreds of bats amplifies the signal to which they're attuning, what is the maximum distance a bat can be from the synchronizing colony and still participate in this collective rhythm? Could it be 10 feet? Or perhaps 100 feet? Or even 1000 feet? This would be fascinating to explore.
pizza 3y ago
You don’t have to assume dominance hierarchies are a platonic ideal for this idea to work materially - all you need is the assumption that a receiver is adjoint to a generator to have some kind of coupling-like phenomenon. Like how antennae are shaped to capture certain geometries of electrical field flux, and how the transmitters of those signals are shaped to produce those geometries. In this case it seems fairly benign to assume that thoughts, which probably flow in a high-redundancy, fault-tolerant way through the brain, can be decoded and incorporated to be processed in a high-redundancy, seemingly structure preserving way. If you hear a tree fall in a forest, that’s ‘cause your perception made it make a sound, subjectively speaking, etc..
- dataviz1000 3y ago
  Let's discuss one instance of human sensitivity with abstract chemistry. When a person orders a pieces of meat in a restaurant and tells the waiter the temperature, rare or medium, they are not specifying a subjective state of the meat at serving time, they are specifying the max internal temperature of a piece of meat during the cooking process. For the rare piece of meat, the max internal temperature is between 125 and 130 F for beef or lamb. For the medium piece of meat, the max internal temperature is between 140 and 150 F for beef or lamb. There is a relationship between the color and texture of the meat and the max internal temperature. [0] One way to tell if the meat is at a certain temperature is to cut it open and look at the color. In this case visual perception can determine and make an association to the max internal temperature of a piece of meat. This is discouraged like sticking a thermometer into the piece of meat as the contracted proteins in the hot meat will push out liquid. Ideally, after the piece of meat reaches the max internal temperature it should rest at a warm temperature so that proteins have a chance to relax. In order to prevent puncturing the meat to determine the max internal temperature, chefs will use a light thumb or finger press making the association between tactile pressure and the internal max temperature. Moreover, there have been several chefs who can simultaneously roast several pieces of meat in an oven and determine the max internal temperature by sound of the roasting juices sizzle on the roasting pan. This isn't extra sensory or any such thing. It is deterministic. It is simply the human mind is capable with practice to associate color with a temperature, tactical touch with a temperature, and the cadence of roasting juices hitting a pan with a temperature. All I'm saying is that the motivating force for a chef to learn these associations between color, pressure, and sound is to not piss off the patron with an incorrect cooked piece of meat. The power relationship is important to the learning process. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin#Role_in_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin#Role_in_cuisine
someweirdperson 3y ago
It could explain why individuals within a group that has decided to act chaotic/evil have difficulties to escape. It might not only be social pressure but synchronization. In that case it is not just a capability but dangerous, too.
skim_milk 3y ago
>synchronization of brain patterns in situations involving power dynamics between individuals An extreme example of this might be the abusive Narcissist/Borderline couple dynamic. There's a handful of psychological literature from established researchers that speculate in these kinds of abusive couples, the victim and abuser entirely synchronize with each other using entraining. For example, the Narcissist uses repetitive, triggering speech patterns to brainwash the victim so the victim acts only the way the Narcissist thinks she'll act. On the other side, the Borderline might cause entraining by begging her partner to regulate her labile emotions. [1] This entraining is also speculated to cause dissociation and amnesia, allowing the Narcissist to wipe clean and replace his victim's memory. [1] Might have been an adaption in the distant past, but in my eyes most people in leadership are neurotics, and they don't like to regulate other peoples' emotions to any extent like the Cluster B's [1] https://vaknin-talks.com/transcripts/Narcissist_Entrains_Codependent_Borderline_Brainwash_Regulate_Repeat https://vaknin-talks.com/transcripts/Narcissist_Entrains_Cod...
avgcorrection 3y ago
The just-so stories that people inject into these situations tell more about their worldview than about the research.
finitemonkey 3y ago
> likely brains of people in subordinate positions syncing with brains of people in dominate positions might have advantage surviving an organized social structures through human history than not. "Likely"? It's possible, but do you have any evidence for this? There could easily be other explanations and to determine something as likely needs more than a feeling of it making sense. In earlier times, people thought it's "likely" that if you have a disease then it would help by getting rid of a lot of blood. That made sense, blood carries lots of things, and making fresh blood surely must help recovering. Turns out, nope, people die quicker from blood letting.

lapama 3y ago

This is in the thin line between telepathy and network science, and provides an interesting basis to research further. Would there be a possible link to quantum entanglement?

drowsspa 3y ago
No.
wizofaus 3y ago
Only if you're a Traveler.
quickthrower2 3y ago
Spooky action at a distance cannot transmit information.
- lapama 3y ago
  Since I am an ignorant on quantum, please would you mind providing a reference?
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    There is this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518 https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/602518, or do you want a paper? I don't have a paper link, I am not that deep into it.
    - lapama 3y ago
      I can dig from here, thanks a lot!
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
I think we're taking the fact that the article says "similar" a lot and running too far with it. As they say, it only makes sense that similar areas of the brain would activate when processing similar stimuli. That's not telepathy or entanglement.
dataviz1000 3y ago
The article discussed several experiments conducted on bats. Bats possess the remarkable ability to echolocate using high-frequency waves, similar to sonar. Just as humans do, bats ascertain the direction of a sound wave by comparing the time intervals at which the sound reaches each ear. The crux of the matter is that, much like humans, bats can demonstrate exceptional sensitivity. One intriguing experiment I would consider involves determining the distance at which an isolated bat can remain from its colony while maintaining synchronized brain waves. Given that bats can echolocate, their auditory sensitivity is incredibly high. If their synchronization is based on vocalizations, and the synchronized activity of scores or even hundreds of bats amplifies the signal to which they're attuning, what is the maximum distance a bat can be from the synchronizing colony and still participate in this collective rhythm? Could it be 10 feet? Or perhaps 100 feet? Or even 1000 feet? This would be fascinating to explore.

pizza 3y ago

You don’t have to assume dominance hierarchies are a platonic ideal for this idea to work materially - all you need is the assumption that a receiver is adjoint to a generator to have some kind of coupling-like phenomenon. Like how antennae are shaped to capture certain geometries of electrical field flux, and how the transmitters of those signals are shaped to produce those geometries. In this case it seems fairly benign to assume that thoughts, which probably flow in a high-redundancy, fault-tolerant way through the brain, can be decoded and incorporated to be processed in a high-redundancy, seemingly structure preserving way. If you hear a tree fall in a forest, that’s ‘cause your perception made it make a sound, subjectively speaking, etc..

dataviz1000 3y ago
Let's discuss one instance of human sensitivity with abstract chemistry. When a person orders a pieces of meat in a restaurant and tells the waiter the temperature, rare or medium, they are not specifying a subjective state of the meat at serving time, they are specifying the max internal temperature of a piece of meat during the cooking process. For the rare piece of meat, the max internal temperature is between 125 and 130 F for beef or lamb. For the medium piece of meat, the max internal temperature is between 140 and 150 F for beef or lamb. There is a relationship between the color and texture of the meat and the max internal temperature. [0] One way to tell if the meat is at a certain temperature is to cut it open and look at the color. In this case visual perception can determine and make an association to the max internal temperature of a piece of meat. This is discouraged like sticking a thermometer into the piece of meat as the contracted proteins in the hot meat will push out liquid. Ideally, after the piece of meat reaches the max internal temperature it should rest at a warm temperature so that proteins have a chance to relax. In order to prevent puncturing the meat to determine the max internal temperature, chefs will use a light thumb or finger press making the association between tactile pressure and the internal max temperature. Moreover, there have been several chefs who can simultaneously roast several pieces of meat in an oven and determine the max internal temperature by sound of the roasting juices sizzle on the roasting pan. This isn't extra sensory or any such thing. It is deterministic. It is simply the human mind is capable with practice to associate color with a temperature, tactical touch with a temperature, and the cadence of roasting juices hitting a pan with a temperature. All I'm saying is that the motivating force for a chef to learn these associations between color, pressure, and sound is to not piss off the patron with an incorrect cooked piece of meat. The power relationship is important to the learning process. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin#Role_in_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin#Role_in_cuisine

someweirdperson 3y ago

It could explain why individuals within a group that has decided to act chaotic/evil have difficulties to escape. It might not only be social pressure but synchronization. In that case it is not just a capability but dangerous, too.

skim_milk 3y ago

>synchronization of brain patterns in situations involving power dynamics between individuals An extreme example of this might be the abusive Narcissist/Borderline couple dynamic. There's a handful of psychological literature from established researchers that speculate in these kinds of abusive couples, the victim and abuser entirely synchronize with each other using entraining. For example, the Narcissist uses repetitive, triggering speech patterns to brainwash the victim so the victim acts only the way the Narcissist thinks she'll act. On the other side, the Borderline might cause entraining by begging her partner to regulate her labile emotions. [1] This entraining is also speculated to cause dissociation and amnesia, allowing the Narcissist to wipe clean and replace his victim's memory. [1] Might have been an adaption in the distant past, but in my eyes most people in leadership are neurotics, and they don't like to regulate other peoples' emotions to any extent like the Cluster B's [1] https://vaknin-talks.com/transcripts/Narcissist_Entrains_Codependent_Borderline_Brainwash_Regulate_Repeat https://vaknin-talks.com/transcripts/Narcissist_Entrains_Cod...

avgcorrection 3y ago

The just-so stories that people inject into these situations tell more about their worldview than about the research.

finitemonkey 3y ago

> likely brains of people in subordinate positions syncing with brains of people in dominate positions might have advantage surviving an organized social structures through human history than not. "Likely"? It's possible, but do you have any evidence for this? There could easily be other explanations and to determine something as likely needs more than a feeling of it making sense. In earlier times, people thought it's "likely" that if you have a disease then it would help by getting rid of a lot of blood. That made sense, blood carries lots of things, and making fresh blood surely must help recovering. Turns out, nope, people die quicker from blood letting.