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I remember a two decades ago when the engineering team made us implement an open office plan at a company. No one wanted walls or cubes. Now it being rejected

I remember a two decades ago when the engineering team made us implement an open office plan at a company. No one wanted walls or cubes. Now it being rejected more and more. I feel it’s like it’s generational.

goalieca 3y ago
Cubes are ugly and visually unappealing. But privacy is important for focusing. Overcrowded Offices suck.
parl_match 3y ago
> I feel it’s like it’s generational. Aesthetically, it's way better. There was a huge emphasis in the 90s and 00s to reimagine what an office looked like, to get away from stuffy fabric, burnt coffee, and dull colors. It turns out that y'all were right about most of that stuff, but a few things (like visual/audible distractions) were made worse.
analog31 3y ago
What I observed at the time was that there was generally a strong backlash against open-plan offices within HN discussions, which represents some kind of weighted average of the tech worker hive mind. Many more "open offices are evil" articles were linked than "open plan offices are heaven." The coders defeated it by going remote, and wearing headphones. "Headphones are the new office door." Their walls of huge monitors replaced the cube walls. ;-) Open offices were rationalized by "collaboration," but engineering is inherently collaborative, and engineers were not consulted. In a department that I worked in, the coders went "virtual remote" by forming a protective silo and discouraging "distraction." Although, they still had lunch with the rest of us. The funny thing is that in a recent thread about digital nomads, pictures of people crowded together in coffee shops, sitting elbow to elbow at their laptops, sparked the reaction: "Those people can't really be working, or maybe they're not really techies." I personally think that what the new normal looks like is still unknown, if one even emerges.
- VonGallifrey 3y ago
  I don't know what your experience is with "open offices", but the ones I have worked in where quite loud and distracting. That isn't to say that I discount the images of people sitting elbow to elbow in coffee shops. Coffee shops are, in my experience, quite a bit quieter then open offices and less distracting too. I would honestly prefer going to a coffee shop to work then a "open office", but also I am really thankful that I don't have to do either.
  - analog31 3y ago
    Indeed, and it also selects for people who prefer that environment. What I also gather from the articles is that the digital nomads are not all techies, but also people in marketing and advertising.
    - the_mar 3y ago
      Honestly I worked from the coffee shop twice in my life and i would not want to do it again
    - tiznow 3y ago
      There are more digital nomads not in tech.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    People tend to be more mindful of noise in a coffee shop because for whatever reason some people are more inclined to not be rude in public than around people they are familiar with.
    - taeric 3y ago
      Not sure I agree it is quite, all told. https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerator.php https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerat..., is a good example of the noise that is in a coffee shop. Catch is that it is easy to mostly tune out voices of people you don't know. Even if you can hear what they are saying. Doing the same with people you know and typically have to listen to, is much much harder.
dboreham 3y ago
> No one wanted walls or cubes. !? I've been working in offices for 40 years and "a door" has always been the gold standard. For a long time it was one of the reasons to work at Microsoft. But since around 1992 if I wanted a door I had to work at home.
- ddingus 3y ago
  The door is that signal others can see to better judge whether breaking into your stream of thought makes sense. Doors are super high value, especially when used properly. And that often means managing door state: Open = available, come on in! Closed = while others can knock, or say a quiet word to interrupt.
nprateem 3y ago
Everyone here seems to hate open plan. For me the thought of a shitty little pen is a nightmare and separate offices seem pointless. I don't know what's wrong with just sticking earphones in if you need to concentrate.
- oblio 3y ago
  I don't like people looking over my shoulder. Wearing headphones for decades all the time isn't great for your ears. Plus your ears can sweat, headphones are one more thing you need to keep track of, especially with the agile desk/flexible desk penny pinching spreading like wildfire. There are many valid reasons to want offices.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  Private offices means I dont have to dedicate a whole room of my house to working. So I have to dedicate a whole room..
makeitdouble 3y ago
> I feel it’s like it’s generational. Open offices can be implemented in sensible ways. Some companies had gorgeous open plans with people in decently large islands still having space for themselves while being not so far from colleagues, with enough space between the islands to not hear everything the neighboring islands are doing. And then you had all other areas where you'd find a quiet corner to isolate if you really need to. I think that was the original pitch for the idea ? But of course those were super expensive, the luxurious space became cramped as more employees join and the offices aren't getting bigger, people wanting quiet places moved to emergency stairs and archival rooms etc. All things considered, I don't think people argue against the fundamental idea of open spaces, they just don't believe companies care enough or would resist cost cutting, making them horrible call center level hellscapes in the long run.

goalieca 3y ago

Cubes are ugly and visually unappealing. But privacy is important for focusing. Overcrowded Offices suck.

parl_match 3y ago

> I feel it’s like it’s generational. Aesthetically, it's way better. There was a huge emphasis in the 90s and 00s to reimagine what an office looked like, to get away from stuffy fabric, burnt coffee, and dull colors. It turns out that y'all were right about most of that stuff, but a few things (like visual/audible distractions) were made worse.

analog31 3y ago

What I observed at the time was that there was generally a strong backlash against open-plan offices within HN discussions, which represents some kind of weighted average of the tech worker hive mind. Many more "open offices are evil" articles were linked than "open plan offices are heaven." The coders defeated it by going remote, and wearing headphones. "Headphones are the new office door." Their walls of huge monitors replaced the cube walls. ;-) Open offices were rationalized by "collaboration," but engineering is inherently collaborative, and engineers were not consulted. In a department that I worked in, the coders went "virtual remote" by forming a protective silo and discouraging "distraction." Although, they still had lunch with the rest of us. The funny thing is that in a recent thread about digital nomads, pictures of people crowded together in coffee shops, sitting elbow to elbow at their laptops, sparked the reaction: "Those people can't really be working, or maybe they're not really techies." I personally think that what the new normal looks like is still unknown, if one even emerges.

VonGallifrey 3y ago
I don't know what your experience is with "open offices", but the ones I have worked in where quite loud and distracting. That isn't to say that I discount the images of people sitting elbow to elbow in coffee shops. Coffee shops are, in my experience, quite a bit quieter then open offices and less distracting too. I would honestly prefer going to a coffee shop to work then a "open office", but also I am really thankful that I don't have to do either.
- analog31 3y ago
  Indeed, and it also selects for people who prefer that environment. What I also gather from the articles is that the digital nomads are not all techies, but also people in marketing and advertising.
  - the_mar 3y ago
    Honestly I worked from the coffee shop twice in my life and i would not want to do it again
  - tiznow 3y ago
    There are more digital nomads not in tech.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  People tend to be more mindful of noise in a coffee shop because for whatever reason some people are more inclined to not be rude in public than around people they are familiar with.
  - taeric 3y ago
    Not sure I agree it is quite, all told. https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerator.php https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/cafeRestaurantNoiseGenerat..., is a good example of the noise that is in a coffee shop. Catch is that it is easy to mostly tune out voices of people you don't know. Even if you can hear what they are saying. Doing the same with people you know and typically have to listen to, is much much harder.

dboreham 3y ago

> No one wanted walls or cubes. !? I've been working in offices for 40 years and "a door" has always been the gold standard. For a long time it was one of the reasons to work at Microsoft. But since around 1992 if I wanted a door I had to work at home.

ddingus 3y ago
The door is that signal others can see to better judge whether breaking into your stream of thought makes sense. Doors are super high value, especially when used properly. And that often means managing door state: Open = available, come on in! Closed = while others can knock, or say a quiet word to interrupt.

nprateem 3y ago

Everyone here seems to hate open plan. For me the thought of a shitty little pen is a nightmare and separate offices seem pointless. I don't know what's wrong with just sticking earphones in if you need to concentrate.

oblio 3y ago
I don't like people looking over my shoulder. Wearing headphones for decades all the time isn't great for your ears. Plus your ears can sweat, headphones are one more thing you need to keep track of, especially with the agile desk/flexible desk penny pinching spreading like wildfire. There are many valid reasons to want offices.
photonbeam 3y ago
Private offices means I dont have to dedicate a whole room of my house to working. So I have to dedicate a whole room..

makeitdouble 3y ago

> I feel it’s like it’s generational. Open offices can be implemented in sensible ways. Some companies had gorgeous open plans with people in decently large islands still having space for themselves while being not so far from colleagues, with enough space between the islands to not hear everything the neighboring islands are doing. And then you had all other areas where you'd find a quiet corner to isolate if you really need to. I think that was the original pitch for the idea ? But of course those were super expensive, the luxurious space became cramped as more employees join and the offices aren't getting bigger, people wanting quiet places moved to emergency stairs and archival rooms etc. All things considered, I don't think people argue against the fundamental idea of open spaces, they just don't believe companies care enough or would resist cost cutting, making them horrible call center level hellscapes in the long run.