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> The group says the province of Ontario as a whole witnessed 27,495 vehicle thefts in 2021. However, on five people were charged with the offense of altering,

> The group says the province of Ontario as a whole witnessed 27,495 vehicle thefts in 2021. However, on five people were charged with the offense of altering, removing, or destroying a vehicle identification number. That's insane. Why isnt every policeman involved being fired? How could they possibly be doing their jobs this badly?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
toast0 3y ago
This article could use an editor. But I'm not sure how many people I should expect to be charged with VIN altering for a given number of thefts? No mention of how many people were charged with auto theft either? Maybe those stealing cars in Ontario tend to deliver them elsewhere where they get VINs altered, so there's no need to charge people with that crime in Ontario. Maybe it's more of a national crime, so it doesn't get picked up in provicinal statistics? Maybe all the parts tend to get exported for sale, and they don't tend to have VINs checked against Ontario thefts, so why bother messing with them?
- version_five 3y ago
  Unless the article is misrepresenting the total number of arrests that relate to car theft (I agree the wording is confusing), there is no acceptable excuse for single digit arrests. Do you think there are loads of other arrests related to car theft that they didn't mention and they just zoomed in on a random think with five arrests? I suppose it's possible...
  - toast0 3y ago
    I mean, if they can't be bothered to write 'only five' rather than 'on five', who knows what other corners they cut?
  - icegreentea2 3y ago
    Zooming in on one fact is exactly what they did, because that one fact is from the section of the report specifically talking about revinning vehicles. There's no other stats (from skimming through the report) on arrest numbers, however it does note that the stolen car recovery rate in 2022 is about 50 percent (down from like 80 to 90 in 2015). No relative numbers are given on the rates of cars being exported vs chopped for parts. No relative numbers of the three main methods of exporting (exporting vehicles that have been financed through stolen identities, revinning, and plain old stuff them into a container) are provided.
    - BeefWellington 3y ago
      In terms of raw crime stats, Statistics Canada lists motor vehicle theft as slightly on the rise from 2020 to 2021, but down substantially from 2011[1]. Interestingly, this page[2] shows a breakdown of several years leading up to the latest stats which show that it was out of control prior to the pandemic and 2020 was the best year recently (I assume because many were at home so less opportunity). The concerning thing might be though, that the number of people charged has not substantially changed, despite the number of thefts decreasing by about 9000 (~11%) in 2020. Police services across the country seem to charge roughly 5500 people with auto theft each year, though slightly down recently with youth dropping significantly. The article's focus on how this is a sudden problem when the rates are substantially lower (as of the 2021 data) than they were in 2019 is pretty weird. It also appears to be incorrect about the numbers of vehicle thefts in 2015. They claim it's 3284 but StatsCan lists just Toronto as having 6623 in 2015.[3] This all does point to a failure by Toronto PD (and bigger picture, other police departments) to enforce, and might explain the relative explosion of vehicle theft. In the years 2015 through 2021, the maximum amount of people they have charged with motor vehicle theft is 514. In that same span, thefts rose from 6623 to 14,032. Since it doesn't seem to be punished, just do more of it I guess. The difference in numbers appears to come from the fact that their linked report is using only Toronto PD's reporting but they aren't going to have all of the numbers because Ontario's provincial police force also operates in and around the city. [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00013/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article... [2]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001... [3]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.19&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001...
paulddraper 3y ago
I guess the criminals are just that good. --- On a more serious note, policemen arrest and prosectors charge.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  "On a more serious note, policemen arrest" Well, apparently not in Canada...
gloryjulio 3y ago
Well that's basically Canada. Politicians literally do nothing except boot-licking the oligarch families like the Irvings and massive importing labors to suppress the wages
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Interesting that every time I bring up the social economical reality in Canada on hn and I got down votes or whataboutism but never a productive refutal. I wonder why ;D
bcrl 3y ago
Police don't do anything. I had 3 fibre optic cables cut by a Bell technician a couple of months ago that resulted in a significant ~30 hour outage for 60 customers. We knew when the cables were cut, we knew the cables were cut at a height on the pole in question that was only accessible via a ladder or bucket truck, and we knew the first name of the Bell tech that was working on a copper phone line for the only residence served by that pole. There was no question as to who cut the cables, but without video footage the cops wouldn't make any effort whatsoever to pursue the matter. The OPP officer took a report and did nothing more. I no longer have absolutely no expectation of justice on "minor" matters from police here in Ontario. There are other local residents have had various possessions stolen. We know informally who did it, but the police can't do a thing. Not sure what the cops are doing with the truckloads of money they get from our taxes every year.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

toast0 3y ago

This article could use an editor. But I'm not sure how many people I should expect to be charged with VIN altering for a given number of thefts? No mention of how many people were charged with auto theft either? Maybe those stealing cars in Ontario tend to deliver them elsewhere where they get VINs altered, so there's no need to charge people with that crime in Ontario. Maybe it's more of a national crime, so it doesn't get picked up in provicinal statistics? Maybe all the parts tend to get exported for sale, and they don't tend to have VINs checked against Ontario thefts, so why bother messing with them?

version_five 3y ago
Unless the article is misrepresenting the total number of arrests that relate to car theft (I agree the wording is confusing), there is no acceptable excuse for single digit arrests. Do you think there are loads of other arrests related to car theft that they didn't mention and they just zoomed in on a random think with five arrests? I suppose it's possible...
- toast0 3y ago
  I mean, if they can't be bothered to write 'only five' rather than 'on five', who knows what other corners they cut?
- icegreentea2 3y ago
  Zooming in on one fact is exactly what they did, because that one fact is from the section of the report specifically talking about revinning vehicles. There's no other stats (from skimming through the report) on arrest numbers, however it does note that the stolen car recovery rate in 2022 is about 50 percent (down from like 80 to 90 in 2015). No relative numbers are given on the rates of cars being exported vs chopped for parts. No relative numbers of the three main methods of exporting (exporting vehicles that have been financed through stolen identities, revinning, and plain old stuff them into a container) are provided.
  - BeefWellington 3y ago
    In terms of raw crime stats, Statistics Canada lists motor vehicle theft as slightly on the rise from 2020 to 2021, but down substantially from 2011[1]. Interestingly, this page[2] shows a breakdown of several years leading up to the latest stats which show that it was out of control prior to the pandemic and 2020 was the best year recently (I assume because many were at home so less opportunity). The concerning thing might be though, that the number of people charged has not substantially changed, despite the number of thefts decreasing by about 9000 (~11%) in 2020. Police services across the country seem to charge roughly 5500 people with auto theft each year, though slightly down recently with youth dropping significantly. The article's focus on how this is a sudden problem when the rates are substantially lower (as of the 2021 data) than they were in 2019 is pretty weird. It also appears to be incorrect about the numbers of vehicle thefts in 2015. They claim it's 3284 but StatsCan lists just Toronto as having 6623 in 2015.[3] This all does point to a failure by Toronto PD (and bigger picture, other police departments) to enforce, and might explain the relative explosion of vehicle theft. In the years 2015 through 2021, the maximum amount of people they have charged with motor vehicle theft is 514. In that same span, thefts rose from 6623 to 14,032. Since it doesn't seem to be punished, just do more of it I guess. The difference in numbers appears to come from the fact that their linked report is using only Toronto PD's reporting but they aren't going to have all of the numbers because Ontario's provincial police force also operates in and around the city. [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article/00013/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2022001/article... [2]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001... [3]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.19&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.69&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20210101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351001...

paulddraper 3y ago

I guess the criminals are just that good. --- On a more serious note, policemen arrest and prosectors charge.

JimtheCoder 3y ago
"On a more serious note, policemen arrest" Well, apparently not in Canada...

gloryjulio 3y ago

Well that's basically Canada. Politicians literally do nothing except boot-licking the oligarch families like the Irvings and massive importing labors to suppress the wages

gloryjulio 3y ago
Interesting that every time I bring up the social economical reality in Canada on hn and I got down votes or whataboutism but never a productive refutal. I wonder why ;D

bcrl 3y ago

Police don't do anything. I had 3 fibre optic cables cut by a Bell technician a couple of months ago that resulted in a significant ~30 hour outage for 60 customers. We knew when the cables were cut, we knew the cables were cut at a height on the pole in question that was only accessible via a ladder or bucket truck, and we knew the first name of the Bell tech that was working on a copper phone line for the only residence served by that pole. There was no question as to who cut the cables, but without video footage the cops wouldn't make any effort whatsoever to pursue the matter. The OPP officer took a report and did nothing more. I no longer have absolutely no expectation of justice on "minor" matters from police here in Ontario. There are other local residents have had various possessions stolen. We know informally who did it, but the police can't do a thing. Not sure what the cops are doing with the truckloads of money they get from our taxes every year.