8 ms·

Tell HN: Don't use “Maybe later” in place of “No”

20 points by agluszak 3y ago

"Do you want to buy our product? Yes/Maybe later" Dear programmers and designers, please learn that NO means NO. Trying to subconsciously trick me into saying MAYBE when I mean NO makes me angry.

frankjr 3y ago
Maybe later.
slater 3y ago
The Funnel Must Flow™
elmerfud 3y ago
Must be having quite the day to post this. "Maybe later" is simply a superset of "no", but no is binary. So I'm not sure what the problem here is with maybe later as it is inclusive of no.
- slater 3y ago
  It's not inclusive of no, at least in "tedious marketing alerts", cos that gives them an "out" to pester you again at a later time. And since there's no "no, i NEVER want to be offered this thing ever again" option.....
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Yeah, that's what we actually need - three options. I may not have made up my mind yet or feel I know enough to make a decision now; "ask me later" definitely needs to be there. But also give me "no, and don't ask me ever again".
  - elmerfud 3y ago
    I hate to be the one to break it to you but if you've already provided a contact method for a salesperson you can tell them "no I never want to be offered this again" directly to their face, and what they actually hear is "maybe later". Because maybe you won't change your mind but as a general rule people do change their mind and a high percentage of sales is being there at the right time with the offer.
    - Doxin 3y ago
      And it's behavior like this that gives salespeople such a negative reputation in popular culture.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  Would you hire a programmer who wrote FALSE == Option<bool>
- jstx1 3y ago
  It looks slimy and gives off the impression that you don't respect your users.
cratermoon 3y ago
At least it's not the "Shut up and take my money!/No, I'm an idiot who doesn't want good things" dark pattern.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  So much stuff nowadays isn't even about money but "engagement" (and justifying some BS position's salary), so an actual "shut up and take my money" button would be an improvement in many cases if it does get out of your way once you do give them money.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    True, many of them just want an email address so they can subscribe you to a bunch of email you won't read and can't easily and reliably unsubscribe from.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
activiation 3y ago
Because if they make you say "maybe later", it means that they can keep bugging you... Just another dark pattern
- qup 3y ago
  Excellent. I've run across many that said "no," and I always chose it. I'm happy those fools didn't find the loophole of "maybe later", and so they can never, ever bug me again. I hope the secret never gets out.
  - activiation 3y ago
    I can feel the sarcasm... but do you have any other explanation?
nivertech 3y ago
In general I agree. Some people, and even entire cultures, thinking that saying plain "no" is rude, and trying to soften it by replacing with "maybe" or "maybe later". It doesn't make sence to say "maybe later" f you use a "fixed time - fixed scope" type planning, e.g. Scrum sprints. But in case you use a more sane "fixed time - variable scope" approach (like for example in Shape Up or informal mini-waterfall SDLCs), then naturally there will be nice-to-have features/tasks with lower priorities, i.e. literally "maybe-s". Shape Up even have a notation for such scopes and tasks: Must-have scope -[ ] Must-have task 1 -[ ] Must-have task 2 -[ ] ~Maybe-later task 3 ~Nice-to-have scope -[ ] ~Optional task 1 -[ ] ~Maybe-later task 2 -[ ] ~Nice-to-have task 3 There are also methodologies where product people can continuously prioritize scopes/features by their value, signaling to the developers what they should implement first, and what they can leave out in case of running out of time.
joshxyz 3y ago
never should be an option too never 4ever
jjice 3y ago
I agree in concept but a part of me thinks that the easiest/best way to deal with this being a common thing is to prepare for it yourself and to maybe find a way to press out a real answer. I know it sucks but a frustration like this (which is very fair) can't really be resolved on a cultural level, but we as individuals can hopefully get better at wringing out real replies from others.
drakonka 3y ago
This kind of reminds me of Reddit's "Over 18" popup, where if you are not logged in and click on an NSFW link it will give you two options "Log in" and "I'm not over 18". As if acting obtuse and ignoring the high chance that the reader is over 18 and just doesn't want to log into the stupid website is going to nudge them into it or something.

20 points by agluszak 3y ago

"Do you want to buy our product? Yes/Maybe later" Dear programmers and designers, please learn that NO means NO. Trying to subconsciously trick me into saying MAYBE when I mean NO makes me angry.

frankjr 3y ago

Maybe later.

slater 3y ago

The Funnel Must Flow™

elmerfud 3y ago

Must be having quite the day to post this. "Maybe later" is simply a superset of "no", but no is binary. So I'm not sure what the problem here is with maybe later as it is inclusive of no.

slater 3y ago
It's not inclusive of no, at least in "tedious marketing alerts", cos that gives them an "out" to pester you again at a later time. And since there's no "no, i NEVER want to be offered this thing ever again" option.....
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Yeah, that's what we actually need - three options. I may not have made up my mind yet or feel I know enough to make a decision now; "ask me later" definitely needs to be there. But also give me "no, and don't ask me ever again".
- elmerfud 3y ago
  I hate to be the one to break it to you but if you've already provided a contact method for a salesperson you can tell them "no I never want to be offered this again" directly to their face, and what they actually hear is "maybe later". Because maybe you won't change your mind but as a general rule people do change their mind and a high percentage of sales is being there at the right time with the offer.
  - Doxin 3y ago
    And it's behavior like this that gives salespeople such a negative reputation in popular culture.
cratermoon 3y ago
Would you hire a programmer who wrote FALSE == Option<bool>
jstx1 3y ago
It looks slimy and gives off the impression that you don't respect your users.

cratermoon 3y ago

At least it's not the "Shut up and take my money!/No, I'm an idiot who doesn't want good things" dark pattern.

Nextgrid 3y ago
So much stuff nowadays isn't even about money but "engagement" (and justifying some BS position's salary), so an actual "shut up and take my money" button would be an improvement in many cases if it does get out of your way once you do give them money.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  True, many of them just want an email address so they can subscribe you to a bunch of email you won't read and can't easily and reliably unsubscribe from.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

activiation 3y ago

Because if they make you say "maybe later", it means that they can keep bugging you... Just another dark pattern

qup 3y ago
Excellent. I've run across many that said "no," and I always chose it. I'm happy those fools didn't find the loophole of "maybe later", and so they can never, ever bug me again. I hope the secret never gets out.
- activiation 3y ago
  I can feel the sarcasm... but do you have any other explanation?

nivertech 3y ago

In general I agree. Some people, and even entire cultures, thinking that saying plain "no" is rude, and trying to soften it by replacing with "maybe" or "maybe later". It doesn't make sence to say "maybe later" f you use a "fixed time - fixed scope" type planning, e.g. Scrum sprints. But in case you use a more sane "fixed time - variable scope" approach (like for example in Shape Up or informal mini-waterfall SDLCs), then naturally there will be nice-to-have features/tasks with lower priorities, i.e. literally "maybe-s". Shape Up even have a notation for such scopes and tasks: Must-have scope -[ ] Must-have task 1 -[ ] Must-have task 2 -[ ] ~Maybe-later task 3 ~Nice-to-have scope -[ ] ~Optional task 1 -[ ] ~Maybe-later task 2 -[ ] ~Nice-to-have task 3 There are also methodologies where product people can continuously prioritize scopes/features by their value, signaling to the developers what they should implement first, and what they can leave out in case of running out of time.

joshxyz 3y ago

never should be an option too never 4ever

jjice 3y ago

I agree in concept but a part of me thinks that the easiest/best way to deal with this being a common thing is to prepare for it yourself and to maybe find a way to press out a real answer. I know it sucks but a frustration like this (which is very fair) can't really be resolved on a cultural level, but we as individuals can hopefully get better at wringing out real replies from others.

drakonka 3y ago

This kind of reminds me of Reddit's "Over 18" popup, where if you are not logged in and click on an NSFW link it will give you two options "Log in" and "I'm not over 18". As if acting obtuse and ignoring the high chance that the reader is over 18 and just doesn't want to log into the stupid website is going to nudge them into it or something.