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"What are the 200 most common nouns in German with the artikel "der"?" I actually didn't realise it was giving me incorrect info until my gf started looking at

"What are the 200 most common nouns in German with the artikel "der"?" I actually didn't realise it was giving me incorrect info until my gf started looking at it! (I was trying to use it to help me learn german)

whats_a_quasar 3y ago
This isn't the same task that you described in the first comment. Did GPT4 include nouns that didn't use the article "der" in its output? Or did it fail to reply with the 200 most common ones?
- LouisSayers 3y ago
  Apologies, I was trying to give a little context for those that don't know about the three "the's" in German. The list was mostly correct, but yes it added nouns that were not "der" nouns into the list. It then attempted to correct the list and failed at correcting it. In terms of output, it also didn't want to give a list of 200, but I did manage to get a list of around 100 back.
  - dmazzoni 3y ago
    I wonder if it'd help to ask it to write the noun with the article. I just tried it now - I asked it to list the top 100 German "der" nouns, then asked it to repeat the list but with the article. That made it obvious which ones were wrong! It was unwilling to write "Der Jahr" when "Das Jahr" is correct.
wenc 3y ago
I gave GPT4 that prompt and as far as I can tell, the list is correct. GPT answer: It's difficult to determine the "200 most common" nouns for a particular gender in German since the frequency of word use can vary greatly depending on the context (e.g., conversational, academic, technical). However, here's a list of 100 common masculine nouns, which use the definite article "der". der Mann (man), der Tag (day), der Freund (friend), der Vater (father), der Bruder (brother), der Sohn (son), der Monat (month), der Kurs (course), der Tisch (table), der Stuhl (chair), der Garten (garden), der Zug (train), der Platz (place), der Himmel (sky), der Wagen (car), der Brief (letter), der König (king), der Schuh (shoe), der Baum (tree), der Hund (dog), der Bär (bear), der Fisch (fish), der Vogel (bird), der Schüler (pupil), der Regen (rain), der Wind (wind), der Wald (forest), der Berg (mountain), der Fluss (river), der Junge (boy), der Kaffee (coffee), der Lehrer (teacher), der Arzt (doctor), der Student (student), der Polizist (policeman), der Künstler (artist), der Teller (plate), der Löffel (spoon), der Geldbeutel (wallet), der Laptop (laptop), der Schalter (switch), der Fernseher (television), der Schrank (cupboard), der Helm (helmet), der Hut (hat), der Schmuck (jewelry), der Ring (ring), der Sport (sport), der Schaden (damage), der Boden (floor), der Sand (sand), der Sturm (storm), der Preis (price), der Feind (enemy), der Held (hero), der Raum (room), der Morgen (morning), der Abend (evening), der Unfall (accident), der Vortrag (lecture), der Urlaub (vacation), der Ausflug (trip), der Hafen (harbor), der Bericht (report), der Name (name), der Bauer (farmer), der Rechner (calculator), der Traum (dream), der Anzug (suit), der Geschmack (taste), der Eindruck (impression), der Zweck (purpose), der Vertrag (contract), der Krieg (war), der Kunde (customer), der Arbeitgeber (employer), der Mitarbeiter (employee), der Kollege (colleague), der Bewohner (resident), der Fahrer (driver), der Gast (guest), der Kritiker (critic), der Profi (professional), der Sieger (winner), der Kandidat (candidate), der Beamte (official), der Insasse (inmate), der Zeuge (witness), der Beweis (proof), der Schatten (shadow), der Zweifel (doubt), der Trauer (grief), der Frieden (peace), der Nerv (nerve), der Horizont (horizon), der Gedanke (thought), der Lohn (wage), der Antrag (application), der Verlust (loss), der Betrag (amount),
- burkaman 3y ago
  I don't speak German, but I just tried a few at random in an online translator and der Trauer seems to be wrong.
  - wenc 3y ago
    You're right, it's die Trauer https://dict.leo.org/german-english/trauer https://dict.leo.org/german-english/trauer
  - wizzwizz4 3y ago
    Wiktionary agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Trauer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Trauer There's a common pattern in GPT discourse (here on HN, but elsewhere too): somebody describes a limitation, somebody else goes "no such limitation exists: look, here's GPT output", and a third person goes "no, here's why your example demonstrates the limitation". It's interesting. People find it very hard – or are disinclined – to distrust a charismatic robot, even when warned.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    Both forms are likely right(I am not a german): > Trauer is a feminine noun. Remember that, in German, both the spelling of the word and the article preceding the word can change depending on whether it is in the nominative, accusative, genitive, or dative case.[1] [1]: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/trauer https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/...
    - Tainnor 3y ago
      "der Trauer" would be correct as an inflected form (genitive or dative singular), but that's not what you would list as a dictionary definition. A good AI should be smart enough to know that if you ask for "German words with the article 'der'", you're most likely to want to be given a list of masculine nouns.
shynrou 3y ago
Some things to think about a) your prompt is ambigious in the sense of do you want masculine nouns or nouns prepended with "der". b) Prompting in the language you want the output to be usually results in better output. c) German is actually a really difficult case for articles as feminin nouns can be use "der" depending on context and meaning. Making it harder for LLMs to pick up. e.g. Die Welt dreht sich. Auf der Welt leben. Auf die Welt gekommen. d) GPT4 is significantly worse in german and most other languages, than in english anyways.

whats_a_quasar 3y ago

This isn't the same task that you described in the first comment. Did GPT4 include nouns that didn't use the article "der" in its output? Or did it fail to reply with the 200 most common ones?

LouisSayers 3y ago
Apologies, I was trying to give a little context for those that don't know about the three "the's" in German. The list was mostly correct, but yes it added nouns that were not "der" nouns into the list. It then attempted to correct the list and failed at correcting it. In terms of output, it also didn't want to give a list of 200, but I did manage to get a list of around 100 back.
- dmazzoni 3y ago
  I wonder if it'd help to ask it to write the noun with the article. I just tried it now - I asked it to list the top 100 German "der" nouns, then asked it to repeat the list but with the article. That made it obvious which ones were wrong! It was unwilling to write "Der Jahr" when "Das Jahr" is correct.

wenc 3y ago

I gave GPT4 that prompt and as far as I can tell, the list is correct. GPT answer: It's difficult to determine the "200 most common" nouns for a particular gender in German since the frequency of word use can vary greatly depending on the context (e.g., conversational, academic, technical). However, here's a list of 100 common masculine nouns, which use the definite article "der". der Mann (man), der Tag (day), der Freund (friend), der Vater (father), der Bruder (brother), der Sohn (son), der Monat (month), der Kurs (course), der Tisch (table), der Stuhl (chair), der Garten (garden), der Zug (train), der Platz (place), der Himmel (sky), der Wagen (car), der Brief (letter), der König (king), der Schuh (shoe), der Baum (tree), der Hund (dog), der Bär (bear), der Fisch (fish), der Vogel (bird), der Schüler (pupil), der Regen (rain), der Wind (wind), der Wald (forest), der Berg (mountain), der Fluss (river), der Junge (boy), der Kaffee (coffee), der Lehrer (teacher), der Arzt (doctor), der Student (student), der Polizist (policeman), der Künstler (artist), der Teller (plate), der Löffel (spoon), der Geldbeutel (wallet), der Laptop (laptop), der Schalter (switch), der Fernseher (television), der Schrank (cupboard), der Helm (helmet), der Hut (hat), der Schmuck (jewelry), der Ring (ring), der Sport (sport), der Schaden (damage), der Boden (floor), der Sand (sand), der Sturm (storm), der Preis (price), der Feind (enemy), der Held (hero), der Raum (room), der Morgen (morning), der Abend (evening), der Unfall (accident), der Vortrag (lecture), der Urlaub (vacation), der Ausflug (trip), der Hafen (harbor), der Bericht (report), der Name (name), der Bauer (farmer), der Rechner (calculator), der Traum (dream), der Anzug (suit), der Geschmack (taste), der Eindruck (impression), der Zweck (purpose), der Vertrag (contract), der Krieg (war), der Kunde (customer), der Arbeitgeber (employer), der Mitarbeiter (employee), der Kollege (colleague), der Bewohner (resident), der Fahrer (driver), der Gast (guest), der Kritiker (critic), der Profi (professional), der Sieger (winner), der Kandidat (candidate), der Beamte (official), der Insasse (inmate), der Zeuge (witness), der Beweis (proof), der Schatten (shadow), der Zweifel (doubt), der Trauer (grief), der Frieden (peace), der Nerv (nerve), der Horizont (horizon), der Gedanke (thought), der Lohn (wage), der Antrag (application), der Verlust (loss), der Betrag (amount),

burkaman 3y ago
I don't speak German, but I just tried a few at random in an online translator and der Trauer seems to be wrong.
- wenc 3y ago
  You're right, it's die Trauer https://dict.leo.org/german-english/trauer https://dict.leo.org/german-english/trauer
- wizzwizz4 3y ago
  Wiktionary agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Trauer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Trauer There's a common pattern in GPT discourse (here on HN, but elsewhere too): somebody describes a limitation, somebody else goes "no such limitation exists: look, here's GPT output", and a third person goes "no, here's why your example demonstrates the limitation". It's interesting. People find it very hard – or are disinclined – to distrust a charismatic robot, even when warned.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  Both forms are likely right(I am not a german): > Trauer is a feminine noun. Remember that, in German, both the spelling of the word and the article preceding the word can change depending on whether it is in the nominative, accusative, genitive, or dative case.[1] [1]: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/trauer https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/...
  - Tainnor 3y ago
    "der Trauer" would be correct as an inflected form (genitive or dative singular), but that's not what you would list as a dictionary definition. A good AI should be smart enough to know that if you ask for "German words with the article 'der'", you're most likely to want to be given a list of masculine nouns.

shynrou 3y ago

Some things to think about a) your prompt is ambigious in the sense of do you want masculine nouns or nouns prepended with "der". b) Prompting in the language you want the output to be usually results in better output. c) German is actually a really difficult case for articles as feminin nouns can be use "der" depending on context and meaning. Making it harder for LLMs to pick up. e.g. Die Welt dreht sich. Auf der Welt leben. Auf die Welt gekommen. d) GPT4 is significantly worse in german and most other languages, than in english anyways.