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Ask yourself: what problem is that job solving and how effective is the solution? A security guard who has to manually press elevator buttons is not solving th

Ask yourself: what problem is that job solving and how effective is the solution? A security guard who has to manually press elevator buttons is not solving the problem effectively. Are you more secure that the guard manually presses the elevator button? Hell there could be an assault in the elevator and he wouldn't know a damn thing because he spent time away from watching cameras to press the elevator button. Therefore, it is a bullshit job.

t-writescode 3y ago
Watching cameras constantly is boring. It’s more interesting to maintain attention by being a face in public, ears and eyes present on a single space.
- waboremo 3y ago
  Bullshit isn't a quantifier about how entertaining a job is. Unless the job is specifically about entertaining I suppose.
  - t-writescode 3y ago
    Security jobs rely on attention. One’s effectiveness at it is impacted by how attentive they can and will sustain for their defined shift.
    - waboremo 3y ago
      All jobs rely on attention. In this example, a security guard having to divert attention to interact with guests at the elevator is going to be distracted far more. But again, this isn't about the security man!!
      - golemiprague 3y ago
        The question is what is the impact of lack of attention, it is hard to keep attention when the job is boring and if 5 minutes of lack of attention are critical than it might be a good idea to make the job less boring by gamifying it. Taking an action even simple as pressing a button makes people more alert, that's why Japanese train drivers for example must do some hand movement of sometimes say some word when they see a signal, apparently it keeps them more aware. I am not saying keeping those people pressing buttons in the lift was for security reasons but it could be a desired outcome which was later observed as useful and therefore the position was kept as is.
gretch 3y ago
Well maybe his job is to guard what exists at the top of the elevator. So yeah, controlling the single point of entry and the only keys to the kingdom could be super effective compared to watching it on a TV screen. You don’t know anything about the threat, the environment, or the asset being protected. Maybe just don’t comment with baseless speculation?
- waboremo 3y ago
  So using your example, maybe there is something at the top floor that needs guarding. Someone manually pressing the elevator doesn't fix this, he becomes another weak point that can be easily socially engineered. One alternative solution that doesn't require that bullshit job is a separate elevator with its own lock/access, which is a very common solution used in many buildings. I don't understand your defensiveness here. The entire point is to question the role as a solution to the problem. Literally what bullshit jobs is all about. This isn't specifically about the elevator man, so you don't need to get all weird about it.
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    Your solution to an elevator operator is to retrofit a building with an entirely separate elevator to access to the floor?
    - waboremo 3y ago
      The problem you are trying to solve is not the elevator operator. The elevator operator is a byproduct of a rushed cheap solution to the problem of crime/access to top floor/whatever the actual problem is. Therefore yes, a retrofit could be a potential solution among many others, what actually is the problem, and how effectively does the role solve it? I should step away from the elevator example because people are clinging to it a bit too firmly when the entire point is to question [job role], not the specific elevator operator.
      - cuteboy19 3y ago
bespokedevelopr 3y ago
Presence is far more effective than monitoring cameras. No one cares if they’re on camera doing something wrong or bad. Presence is a real deterrent. Presence also can mean placing yourself closer to where incidents happen more frequently which allows for a quicker response time. Source me a security officer at a hospital.
makeitdouble 3y ago
To note, there are fully automated elevators in department stores in other countries that will have an operator at some specific times. It's not just a security thing. The mains issue with security guards is they're weird doing nothing. It can be an important aspect of the job to be there standing in the corner in uniform, but if as commercial place you want a more casual and peaceful atmosphere, having your security staff dress like employees and do something, anything will help a lot. As another there's the cleaning staff in attraction parks, they walk around with a broom but are expected to do a lot more, inclusing spotting lost kids, problematic behavior etc. > he spent time away from watching cameras to press the elevator button. Aren't they _in_ the elevator ?

t-writescode 3y ago

Watching cameras constantly is boring. It’s more interesting to maintain attention by being a face in public, ears and eyes present on a single space.

waboremo 3y ago
Bullshit isn't a quantifier about how entertaining a job is. Unless the job is specifically about entertaining I suppose.
- t-writescode 3y ago
  Security jobs rely on attention. One’s effectiveness at it is impacted by how attentive they can and will sustain for their defined shift.
  - waboremo 3y ago
    All jobs rely on attention. In this example, a security guard having to divert attention to interact with guests at the elevator is going to be distracted far more. But again, this isn't about the security man!!
    - golemiprague 3y ago
      The question is what is the impact of lack of attention, it is hard to keep attention when the job is boring and if 5 minutes of lack of attention are critical than it might be a good idea to make the job less boring by gamifying it. Taking an action even simple as pressing a button makes people more alert, that's why Japanese train drivers for example must do some hand movement of sometimes say some word when they see a signal, apparently it keeps them more aware. I am not saying keeping those people pressing buttons in the lift was for security reasons but it could be a desired outcome which was later observed as useful and therefore the position was kept as is.

gretch 3y ago

Well maybe his job is to guard what exists at the top of the elevator. So yeah, controlling the single point of entry and the only keys to the kingdom could be super effective compared to watching it on a TV screen. You don’t know anything about the threat, the environment, or the asset being protected. Maybe just don’t comment with baseless speculation?

waboremo 3y ago
So using your example, maybe there is something at the top floor that needs guarding. Someone manually pressing the elevator doesn't fix this, he becomes another weak point that can be easily socially engineered. One alternative solution that doesn't require that bullshit job is a separate elevator with its own lock/access, which is a very common solution used in many buildings. I don't understand your defensiveness here. The entire point is to question the role as a solution to the problem. Literally what bullshit jobs is all about. This isn't specifically about the elevator man, so you don't need to get all weird about it.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  Your solution to an elevator operator is to retrofit a building with an entirely separate elevator to access to the floor?
  - waboremo 3y ago
    The problem you are trying to solve is not the elevator operator. The elevator operator is a byproduct of a rushed cheap solution to the problem of crime/access to top floor/whatever the actual problem is. Therefore yes, a retrofit could be a potential solution among many others, what actually is the problem, and how effectively does the role solve it? I should step away from the elevator example because people are clinging to it a bit too firmly when the entire point is to question [job role], not the specific elevator operator.
    - cuteboy19 3y ago

bespokedevelopr 3y ago

Presence is far more effective than monitoring cameras. No one cares if they’re on camera doing something wrong or bad. Presence is a real deterrent. Presence also can mean placing yourself closer to where incidents happen more frequently which allows for a quicker response time. Source me a security officer at a hospital.

makeitdouble 3y ago

To note, there are fully automated elevators in department stores in other countries that will have an operator at some specific times. It's not just a security thing. The mains issue with security guards is they're weird doing nothing. It can be an important aspect of the job to be there standing in the corner in uniform, but if as commercial place you want a more casual and peaceful atmosphere, having your security staff dress like employees and do something, anything will help a lot. As another there's the cleaning staff in attraction parks, they walk around with a broom but are expected to do a lot more, inclusing spotting lost kids, problematic behavior etc. > he spent time away from watching cameras to press the elevator button. Aren't they _in_ the elevator ?