6 ms·

We walked from the Ritz to the Opera House, and I can't tell you how many windows on cars were smashed. Maybe you've lived there so long you're blind to it.

simoncion 3y ago
> Maybe you've lived there so long you're blind to it. I assure you that I'm very much not blind to it. I'm super angry about how the city governors refuses to suppress the anti-housing faction, and lines their pockets at most every opportunity. But I'm definitely not blind to the folks living in the streets and their regular goings-on. And while I'm angry about what the government is failing to do, I'm not _shocked_ and/or _appalled_ by what's happening on the streets. In my personal experience, I've found that folks who are shocked and/or deeply offended by a thing tend to remember the thing as being far more extreme than it actually was. shrug
- deviantbit 3y ago
  I'll let you sort out the politics, but where I live, we don't see any of that. No one should have to worry about that stuff. This is a serious concern. Disease outbreaks occur because of these conditions. Something that really puzzled me about the homeless was many of them would be standing but bent over with their hands on the ground, and head between their knees. WTF is with that?
  - simoncion 3y ago
    > This is a serious concern. Yep. Housing the homeless and providing the medical and psychological care they need is the humane thing to do. The _inhumane_ thing to do is to simply move them out of the way so that rich tourists don't have to see them. (This is sometimes what the SFPD is ordered to do, and it boils my blood every time they do it.) > Disease outbreaks occur because of these conditions. You might be surprised at the medical outreach work that happens in the city. You'd do your psyche a bit of a favor by learning about the support programs in the city, maybe. > ...many of them would be standing but bent over with their hands on the ground, and head between their knees. Some are high. Some are physically damaged. Next time you're in town, you should _really_ talk to some of these folks. (edit: And by "these" folks, I don't mean "the folks who are clearly high out of their gourd", but I mean "the folks who are out on street living a normal life... just without a roof over their heads") The majority of them are actually quite pleasant people who are fun to chat with.
    - deviantbit 3y ago
      You seem like a pleasant person. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I will be returning anytime soon. You guys have a level of problems I want to stay far away from. Sometimes to be humane, you have to be inhumane. You guys do have some great restaurants. I hope you're able to keep them. Best of luck.
      - simoncion 3y ago
        > Sometimes to be humane, you have to be inhumane. And what -exactly- do you mean by that? Please do be specific.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        Not OP, but if someone is on the street openly using drugs and defecating on the sidewalk, those are crimes. They can be addressed through therapy or community support or jail. But they need to be addressed, even if the person in question would prefer they not be.
        deviantbit 3y ago
        I was trying to be nice. Let me put it in terms that Gene Roddenberry would have explained. He emphasized it in his work. You might have heard about it. Star Trek. "The needs of the many, out way the needs of a few, or the one." When you're more interested in the humanity, and dignity of those afflicted (the few) than those not afflicted (the many) then you're going to continue to generate more afflicted. You have to stop the problem at the source. That means: Cutting off the drug supply. Enforcing laws. Everything you most likely despise. You only care about those that are on those streets. You have to make it harder to become homeless, than it is to be a successful functioning member of society. Jobs are not the problem. There are jobs everywhere. In one of my businesses, I needed truck drivers. I can't find them because hardly anyone can pass a drug test. I will pay for them to get their CDL, if they're drug free. It's not happening. I sponsored 3 people from India to drive trucks for me. They work 6 hour days, make $35 an hour, with route bonuses, and benefits. I have a software company (or had), where we did DoD projects. It is next to impossible to find anyone that can pass a background check for a security clearance with the FBI. Why? Drugs. I had another software company that was in the Casino Gaming space. It was difficult to get people licensed. Why? Drugs. There is opportunity for everyone, bad decisions put you in the street. Then people like you and I have coddled these people, and give them enough to get by, so they don't want to return to being a functioning members of society. Anything else, they steal or commit another crime to get more drugs. I have spoken to many of these people. Your presumption shows your character. I have donated more money to this problem than you will make in your life. Money is not fixing the issue. I have stopped supporting many alcoves. We keep creating more, and more that end up needing help. The majority of the problem revolves around drugs. Drugs cause mental issues. This is a fact. People don't want to work. They want drugs. So, I will not be returning to SF. I will not fund the business I was there to invest in. Keep going with your idealism. The universes own laws will eventually catch up with you, as history shows us every time.
- RobertRies 3y ago
  Not _shocked_ and/or _appalled_ by people literally dying of overdoses in the streets. Photo-albums strewn in the street when a burglar decided it was worthless and ditched it? A family purely distraught - the father sitting on the curb crying with his family when he discovered their U-haul was looted during their overnight stay at a hotel it was parked in? Stealing a dog from an old man who left it tied up outside a store for a moment. Stealing a ~10 year-old's small pink bicycle in front of unSafeway as the family went in to buy snacks and water for their bike ride, to find it gone when they came out. A man... entertaining himself while glairing intently at children in front of the Union Square McDonalds? These, and infinitely other unmentionable things (including a myriad of stories that involve myself as the victim, many of them worse than above): absolutely a daily occurrence for me in the TL. What is your bar for "shocking"? I believe you are blind.

simoncion 3y ago

> Maybe you've lived there so long you're blind to it. I assure you that I'm very much not blind to it. I'm super angry about how the city governors refuses to suppress the anti-housing faction, and lines their pockets at most every opportunity. But I'm definitely not blind to the folks living in the streets and their regular goings-on. And while I'm angry about what the government is failing to do, I'm not _shocked_ and/or _appalled_ by what's happening on the streets. In my personal experience, I've found that folks who are shocked and/or deeply offended by a thing tend to remember the thing as being far more extreme than it actually was. shrug

deviantbit 3y ago
I'll let you sort out the politics, but where I live, we don't see any of that. No one should have to worry about that stuff. This is a serious concern. Disease outbreaks occur because of these conditions. Something that really puzzled me about the homeless was many of them would be standing but bent over with their hands on the ground, and head between their knees. WTF is with that?
- simoncion 3y ago
  > This is a serious concern. Yep. Housing the homeless and providing the medical and psychological care they need is the humane thing to do. The _inhumane_ thing to do is to simply move them out of the way so that rich tourists don't have to see them. (This is sometimes what the SFPD is ordered to do, and it boils my blood every time they do it.) > Disease outbreaks occur because of these conditions. You might be surprised at the medical outreach work that happens in the city. You'd do your psyche a bit of a favor by learning about the support programs in the city, maybe. > ...many of them would be standing but bent over with their hands on the ground, and head between their knees. Some are high. Some are physically damaged. Next time you're in town, you should _really_ talk to some of these folks. (edit: And by "these" folks, I don't mean "the folks who are clearly high out of their gourd", but I mean "the folks who are out on street living a normal life... just without a roof over their heads") The majority of them are actually quite pleasant people who are fun to chat with.
  - deviantbit 3y ago
    You seem like a pleasant person. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I will be returning anytime soon. You guys have a level of problems I want to stay far away from. Sometimes to be humane, you have to be inhumane. You guys do have some great restaurants. I hope you're able to keep them. Best of luck.
    - simoncion 3y ago
      > Sometimes to be humane, you have to be inhumane. And what -exactly- do you mean by that? Please do be specific.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        Not OP, but if someone is on the street openly using drugs and defecating on the sidewalk, those are crimes. They can be addressed through therapy or community support or jail. But they need to be addressed, even if the person in question would prefer they not be.
      - deviantbit 3y ago
        I was trying to be nice. Let me put it in terms that Gene Roddenberry would have explained. He emphasized it in his work. You might have heard about it. Star Trek. "The needs of the many, out way the needs of a few, or the one." When you're more interested in the humanity, and dignity of those afflicted (the few) than those not afflicted (the many) then you're going to continue to generate more afflicted. You have to stop the problem at the source. That means: Cutting off the drug supply. Enforcing laws. Everything you most likely despise. You only care about those that are on those streets. You have to make it harder to become homeless, than it is to be a successful functioning member of society. Jobs are not the problem. There are jobs everywhere. In one of my businesses, I needed truck drivers. I can't find them because hardly anyone can pass a drug test. I will pay for them to get their CDL, if they're drug free. It's not happening. I sponsored 3 people from India to drive trucks for me. They work 6 hour days, make $35 an hour, with route bonuses, and benefits. I have a software company (or had), where we did DoD projects. It is next to impossible to find anyone that can pass a background check for a security clearance with the FBI. Why? Drugs. I had another software company that was in the Casino Gaming space. It was difficult to get people licensed. Why? Drugs. There is opportunity for everyone, bad decisions put you in the street. Then people like you and I have coddled these people, and give them enough to get by, so they don't want to return to being a functioning members of society. Anything else, they steal or commit another crime to get more drugs. I have spoken to many of these people. Your presumption shows your character. I have donated more money to this problem than you will make in your life. Money is not fixing the issue. I have stopped supporting many alcoves. We keep creating more, and more that end up needing help. The majority of the problem revolves around drugs. Drugs cause mental issues. This is a fact. People don't want to work. They want drugs. So, I will not be returning to SF. I will not fund the business I was there to invest in. Keep going with your idealism. The universes own laws will eventually catch up with you, as history shows us every time.
RobertRies 3y ago
Not _shocked_ and/or _appalled_ by people literally dying of overdoses in the streets. Photo-albums strewn in the street when a burglar decided it was worthless and ditched it? A family purely distraught - the father sitting on the curb crying with his family when he discovered their U-haul was looted during their overnight stay at a hotel it was parked in? Stealing a dog from an old man who left it tied up outside a store for a moment. Stealing a ~10 year-old's small pink bicycle in front of unSafeway as the family went in to buy snacks and water for their bike ride, to find it gone when they came out. A man... entertaining himself while glairing intently at children in front of the Union Square McDonalds? These, and infinitely other unmentionable things (including a myriad of stories that involve myself as the victim, many of them worse than above): absolutely a daily occurrence for me in the TL. What is your bar for "shocking"? I believe you are blind.