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I was raised by career long LEOs. My mother and father and all 3 of my stepfathers were LEOs. They always told me to never speak to the police. Every interacti

I was raised by career long LEOs. My mother and father and all 3 of my stepfathers were LEOs. They always told me to never speak to the police. Every interaction with a police officer is inviting trouble into your life. They exist to monetize your mistakes. They have no legal obligation to assist you in any manner.

paulpauper 3y ago
what if you are asked to identify yourself such as for a speeding ticket or a Terry stop. I don't think it's clear cut.
- mplanchard 3y ago
  This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.
  - tyingq 3y ago
    > This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they have lots of power to generate consequences if they don't like it.
    - green_man_lives 3y ago
      The real answer is that there is no actual way to win. You are at their mercy and it is really 100% up to what they choose to do.
      - mplanchard 3y ago
        While it is true that you are physically at their mercy, provided you survive your encounter with the police (not by any means a guarantee in this country), you CANNOT be incriminated in a court of law for invoking your right to remain silent. You CAN be incriminated in a court of law for literally anything else you say. The winning move is clearly not to give them any more ammunition than they already have.
        tyingq 3y ago
        I think we all understand that part. It's the part where they can say anything happened and it's suddenly your word against theirs. So, irritating them can have consequences. The tactic feels fine for an interrogation room, where's everything is on camera. In the outside world, it's trickier.
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Yeah that is true, although most police have bodycams these days, and they’ve also got a recording going from their car, so there’s generally going to be some evidence in your favor. It is also always a good idea to start recording at least audio on your phone before talking to police. A lot of people seem to think that not answering questions is going to aggravate the officer, and that’s not generally true in my experience. Assuming you’re asserting your rights calmly and not being belligerent, it’s well within the normal scope of behavior that they expert to encounter.
        CottonMcKnight 3y ago
        That WAS true, until Scalia et al eviscerated the protections of the 5th Amendment if you invoke it after you start talking. Then (according to the majority opinion of the Court), your subsequent invocation of the 5th Amendment CAN be used as evidence against you.
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Oof I didn’t know about this. So it only works now if it’s the first thing you say?
    - mplanchard 3y ago
      But it is clear cut! You don’t have to answer any of those questions. You only need to provide your identification and registration. Remember it’s not a normal social interaction. They use the fact that it feels rude to refuse to answer questions to get you to incriminate yourself. They’re playing a game, and so you need to understand the rules. Not answering is not being rude. Invoke your 5th amendment right and shut up.
      - SauciestGNU 3y ago
        The meme lawyers from the "shut the fuck up Friday" video suggest saying "I'm not answering questions about my day", but they're meme lawyers so probably talk to a real lawyer if you want a real suggestion.
    - thethimble 3y ago
      It seems like there’s a practical approach and a literalist approach here. I never understood the insistence of “don’t talk to the police” in relation to the questions above. If you can give the “right” answers, why wouldn’t you? I understand how this might be compromising fundamental rights, but at the same time I just want to get home. Is this wrong?
      - mplanchard 3y ago
        The problem is that you don’t know what the cop is doing. They might just be pulling you over for the reasons they stated, or they might be investigating some crime in the area and looking for suspicious people. Even a right or true answer can incriminate you in a certain light. Everything you say can potentially bite you in the ass later. Better to be a little inconvenienced and take longer to get home than say something that can later be used in a court of law to implicate you in something you had no knowledge of. I really want to emphasize that ALL of my police family gives this same advice.
        thethimble 3y ago
        Thanks for the continued insistence!
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Haha I don’t know if this is sarcastic, but I get it if so. Someone else said I was too indignant. I apologize if I’m coming on strong. I’ve talked to one of my uncles in particular, who was a police officer for a long time and who now works for DHS, about the tactics that he’d use once he stopped people to try to get them to admit to something he could arrest them for. He obviously always felt like he was just doing his job: if he could get them to incriminate themselves, then he just nabbed a criminal. But he’d do a lot of really tricky stuff! And there are a lot of things that are technically illegal that they can get you in if they’re suspicious of you for some reason. Anyway as a result this a thing that I feel pretty strongly about :)
        credit_guy 3y ago
    - egberts1 3y ago
      It is clear cut because when you obtained your driver's license, you have had already signed and agreed to reveal your name on a "traffic" stop because you are on public road with intent for commerce (or not). Walking on the sidewalk, your D/L, not so much unless you were operating a vehicle, registered or not.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      I think the standard cop questions, "Do you know how fast you were going?" and "do you know why I stopped you?" are also invitations for you to incriminate yourself. A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer. Edit: to you guys claiming that's lying to an officer and you have to know your speed, I can only say show us the proof that that's ever happened. I don't think that would ever come up in court, if you happened to challenge the ticket and if the cop happened to show up. He would say, "I clocked him at 65," you'd have no defense, case closed.
      - krapp 3y ago
        >A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer. You just admitted to reckless driving. You're not allowed to not know the speed limit or your own speed while driving - the speedometer is right in front of you, and the officer knows exactly where the last speed limit sign you passed was. And if you recant on that in any way, if you even seem slightly uncertain, you just admitted to lying to an officer. This is why the rule is "never talk to police," not "never talk to police unless you think you're clever."
        x86x87 3y ago
        You don't have to answer any question. Provide ID if it's required. Tell them you refuse to answer ANY questions and they do what they do. Ask if you're under arrest and if yes ask for a lawyer. That's it. Just keep quiet. 0 fucks if it's awkward or you feel like this is not a normal human interaction - guess what? It's not. When the time comes to go before a judge you and your lawyer simply say that you did not say anything apart from asking about the arrest and for a lawyer. That's it.
        mindslight 3y ago
        Cop: "Here is your license and your ticket. You are free to go" ... Judge: "I have a written report here from Officer Trip saying he visually observed you going 32 mph in a 30 zone. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" You: "No" Judge (thinking): I've never known Officer Pao R. Trip to be a stickler for speeding. There must be some story behind this You: "I did not say anything apart from asking if I was under arrest and for a lawyer" Judge (thinking): ahhh, that's it. Thank goodness, that would have been bothering me until at least the third hole Judge: "I find you guilty of speeding, here is your fine and insurance points. Please pay at the cashier's window or online within 21 days" <judge hammer>
    - mindslight 3y ago
      So many responses aren't getting the point of this comment. Cops are basically trying to sort "good people" from "bad people", despite how regressive that is. Often times you'll get pulled over while being "guilty" of something that is completely understandable (newly broken tail light) or mostly used as a pretext to pull people over to investigate other things (5-10 mph over in most areas). If you stay terse with the cop, especially if you're young, they'll see you as someone flippant who doesn't respect their authorituh and punish you with the letter of the law. Whereas if you engage and give them friendly answers they're more likely to see you as a person (aka "good person") and let you go with a warning. Obviously for this to work, you need to have the sense to not give them answers that incriminate you or otherwise make them suspicious.
      - mplanchard 3y ago
        Heck you don’t have to be rude to not answer their questions. If you’re young you can even blame your parents: “Sorry officer but my parents advised me to never answer any questions without my lawyer, so that’s what I’m doing.” As an older person, if you want to deflect blame, you can blame your lawyer, your LEO cousin, or anyone else you want.
        lelanthran 3y ago
        > If you’re young you can even blame your parents: “Sorry officer but my parents advised me to never answer any questions without my lawyer, so that’s what I’m doing.” This is the best advice for young people: if you say you're taking your parent's advice, there's a number of advantages: a) You're not being rude, b) You're coming across as someone who obeys authority, c) It's nothing personal,
      - 93po 3y ago
        If a cop lets how nice you are influence whether they ticket you, they are corrupt and making a joke of their profession. Cops don’t ask you questions to be conversational. They do it because they want to fuck you.
        3y ago
  - slipshady 3y ago
    There's a different video in which James Duane addresses the traffic stop situation - https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?t=503 https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?t=503
  - kar5pt 3y ago
    Does the average non-lawyer know when they're obligated to answer the police? I don't think I do.
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  you have to show your ID, you don't have to talk to the cop. It's not that hard to be respectful with yes, no, not sure, etc without giving away anything. Never consent to a search of your car. Not ever. Don't lie, if you don't want to answer something then simply decline.

paulpauper 3y ago

what if you are asked to identify yourself such as for a speeding ticket or a Terry stop. I don't think it's clear cut.

mplanchard 3y ago
This is clear cut. There are situations where you are legally obligated to interact with the police, like providing your identification at a traffic stop. In any other situation, you should avoid interaction with the police.
- tyingq 3y ago
  > This is clear cut. Sort of. So you're pulled over for a brake light that's out. Then, they start asking "Where are you coming from?", "Why are you here?", "Do you live near here? (when they already have your address)", "If you're coming from that far, why don't you have luggage?" etc. I guess you can try to give as terse an answer as possible without coming across as rude? Saying nothing is your right, but they have lots of power to generate consequences if they don't like it.
  - green_man_lives 3y ago
    The real answer is that there is no actual way to win. You are at their mercy and it is really 100% up to what they choose to do.
    - mplanchard 3y ago
      While it is true that you are physically at their mercy, provided you survive your encounter with the police (not by any means a guarantee in this country), you CANNOT be incriminated in a court of law for invoking your right to remain silent. You CAN be incriminated in a court of law for literally anything else you say. The winning move is clearly not to give them any more ammunition than they already have.
      - tyingq 3y ago
        I think we all understand that part. It's the part where they can say anything happened and it's suddenly your word against theirs. So, irritating them can have consequences. The tactic feels fine for an interrogation room, where's everything is on camera. In the outside world, it's trickier.
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Yeah that is true, although most police have bodycams these days, and they’ve also got a recording going from their car, so there’s generally going to be some evidence in your favor. It is also always a good idea to start recording at least audio on your phone before talking to police. A lot of people seem to think that not answering questions is going to aggravate the officer, and that’s not generally true in my experience. Assuming you’re asserting your rights calmly and not being belligerent, it’s well within the normal scope of behavior that they expert to encounter.
      - CottonMcKnight 3y ago
        That WAS true, until Scalia et al eviscerated the protections of the 5th Amendment if you invoke it after you start talking. Then (according to the majority opinion of the Court), your subsequent invocation of the 5th Amendment CAN be used as evidence against you.
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Oof I didn’t know about this. So it only works now if it’s the first thing you say?
  - mplanchard 3y ago
    But it is clear cut! You don’t have to answer any of those questions. You only need to provide your identification and registration. Remember it’s not a normal social interaction. They use the fact that it feels rude to refuse to answer questions to get you to incriminate yourself. They’re playing a game, and so you need to understand the rules. Not answering is not being rude. Invoke your 5th amendment right and shut up.
    - SauciestGNU 3y ago
      The meme lawyers from the "shut the fuck up Friday" video suggest saying "I'm not answering questions about my day", but they're meme lawyers so probably talk to a real lawyer if you want a real suggestion.
  - thethimble 3y ago
    It seems like there’s a practical approach and a literalist approach here. I never understood the insistence of “don’t talk to the police” in relation to the questions above. If you can give the “right” answers, why wouldn’t you? I understand how this might be compromising fundamental rights, but at the same time I just want to get home. Is this wrong?
    - mplanchard 3y ago
      The problem is that you don’t know what the cop is doing. They might just be pulling you over for the reasons they stated, or they might be investigating some crime in the area and looking for suspicious people. Even a right or true answer can incriminate you in a certain light. Everything you say can potentially bite you in the ass later. Better to be a little inconvenienced and take longer to get home than say something that can later be used in a court of law to implicate you in something you had no knowledge of. I really want to emphasize that ALL of my police family gives this same advice.
      - thethimble 3y ago
        Thanks for the continued insistence!
        mplanchard 3y ago
        Haha I don’t know if this is sarcastic, but I get it if so. Someone else said I was too indignant. I apologize if I’m coming on strong. I’ve talked to one of my uncles in particular, who was a police officer for a long time and who now works for DHS, about the tactics that he’d use once he stopped people to try to get them to admit to something he could arrest them for. He obviously always felt like he was just doing his job: if he could get them to incriminate themselves, then he just nabbed a criminal. But he’d do a lot of really tricky stuff! And there are a lot of things that are technically illegal that they can get you in if they’re suspicious of you for some reason. Anyway as a result this a thing that I feel pretty strongly about :)
      - credit_guy 3y ago
  - egberts1 3y ago
    It is clear cut because when you obtained your driver's license, you have had already signed and agreed to reveal your name on a "traffic" stop because you are on public road with intent for commerce (or not). Walking on the sidewalk, your D/L, not so much unless you were operating a vehicle, registered or not.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    I think the standard cop questions, "Do you know how fast you were going?" and "do you know why I stopped you?" are also invitations for you to incriminate yourself. A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer. Edit: to you guys claiming that's lying to an officer and you have to know your speed, I can only say show us the proof that that's ever happened. I don't think that would ever come up in court, if you happened to challenge the ticket and if the cop happened to show up. He would say, "I clocked him at 65," you'd have no defense, case closed.
    - krapp 3y ago
      >A polite "No idea, officer" is your answer. You just admitted to reckless driving. You're not allowed to not know the speed limit or your own speed while driving - the speedometer is right in front of you, and the officer knows exactly where the last speed limit sign you passed was. And if you recant on that in any way, if you even seem slightly uncertain, you just admitted to lying to an officer. This is why the rule is "never talk to police," not "never talk to police unless you think you're clever."
      - x86x87 3y ago
        You don't have to answer any question. Provide ID if it's required. Tell them you refuse to answer ANY questions and they do what they do. Ask if you're under arrest and if yes ask for a lawyer. That's it. Just keep quiet. 0 fucks if it's awkward or you feel like this is not a normal human interaction - guess what? It's not. When the time comes to go before a judge you and your lawyer simply say that you did not say anything apart from asking about the arrest and for a lawyer. That's it.
        mindslight 3y ago
        Cop: "Here is your license and your ticket. You are free to go" ... Judge: "I have a written report here from Officer Trip saying he visually observed you going 32 mph in a 30 zone. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" You: "No" Judge (thinking): I've never known Officer Pao R. Trip to be a stickler for speeding. There must be some story behind this You: "I did not say anything apart from asking if I was under arrest and for a lawyer" Judge (thinking): ahhh, that's it. Thank goodness, that would have been bothering me until at least the third hole Judge: "I find you guilty of speeding, here is your fine and insurance points. Please pay at the cashier's window or online within 21 days" <judge hammer>
  - mindslight 3y ago
    So many responses aren't getting the point of this comment. Cops are basically trying to sort "good people" from "bad people", despite how regressive that is. Often times you'll get pulled over while being "guilty" of something that is completely understandable (newly broken tail light) or mostly used as a pretext to pull people over to investigate other things (5-10 mph over in most areas). If you stay terse with the cop, especially if you're young, they'll see you as someone flippant who doesn't respect their authorituh and punish you with the letter of the law. Whereas if you engage and give them friendly answers they're more likely to see you as a person (aka "good person") and let you go with a warning. Obviously for this to work, you need to have the sense to not give them answers that incriminate you or otherwise make them suspicious.
    - mplanchard 3y ago
      Heck you don’t have to be rude to not answer their questions. If you’re young you can even blame your parents: “Sorry officer but my parents advised me to never answer any questions without my lawyer, so that’s what I’m doing.” As an older person, if you want to deflect blame, you can blame your lawyer, your LEO cousin, or anyone else you want.
      - lelanthran 3y ago
        > If you’re young you can even blame your parents: “Sorry officer but my parents advised me to never answer any questions without my lawyer, so that’s what I’m doing.” This is the best advice for young people: if you say you're taking your parent's advice, there's a number of advantages: a) You're not being rude, b) You're coming across as someone who obeys authority, c) It's nothing personal,
    - 93po 3y ago
      If a cop lets how nice you are influence whether they ticket you, they are corrupt and making a joke of their profession. Cops don’t ask you questions to be conversational. They do it because they want to fuck you.
      - 3y ago
- slipshady 3y ago
  There's a different video in which James Duane addresses the traffic stop situation - https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?t=503 https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?t=503
- kar5pt 3y ago
  Does the average non-lawyer know when they're obligated to answer the police? I don't think I do.
lost_tourist 3y ago
you have to show your ID, you don't have to talk to the cop. It's not that hard to be respectful with yes, no, not sure, etc without giving away anything. Never consent to a search of your car. Not ever. Don't lie, if you don't want to answer something then simply decline.