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My first time in SF was when I attended JavaOne 2007, because Java was still kind of exciting back then. Did what I'm used to in new cities - walk in a random d

by zgluck 3y ago

My first time in SF was when I attended JavaOne 2007, because Java was still kind of exciting back then. Did what I'm used to in new cities - walk in a random direction to find something interesting. Two minutes later I felt like I was in The Wire. In subsequent visits I didn't wander about. And then I hear that things have gotten worse....

dehrmann 3y ago
Someone said the TL is basically Hamsterdam.
- canucker2016 3y ago
  TL=Tenderloin, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco
  - zgluck 3y ago
    Yes, and that was indeed the area I wandered into.
- simoncion 3y ago
  Aye, it totally is. And it has the benefits that were illustrated in the show. People are going to buy and sell drugs, sex, & etc. It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence.
  - zgluck 3y ago
    > It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence. I didn't see any police presence there. Do you have any scientifically researched reason for this claim or is it just a hunch?
    - simoncion 3y ago
      > I didn't see any police presence there. How long did you stick around? A few minutes? In my personal experience, as someone who has lived here for more than a decade, I see regular auto patrols going through the neighborhoods, as well as occasional foot patrols whose purpose seems to be to talk to some of the folks in the area and get a sense of what has been going on lately. This isn't shit you're going to see if you're just passing through... you've gotta stick around and pay attention.
      - zgluck 3y ago
        > Do you have any scientifically researched reason for this claim or is it just a hunch?
        simoncion 3y ago
        I invite you to discover the wide world of existing literature and research that demonstrates solid links between regular neighborhood mounted and foot patrols and reduction in violent and property crime.
        zgluck 3y ago
        So a case of waving hands violently. Also: Your original claim was "People are going to buy and sell drugs, sex, & etc. It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence." Not: "solid links between regular neighborhood mounted and foot patrols and reduction in violent and property"
        simoncion 3y ago
        I don't know where you're from, so I don't know how the police operate in your area. I'm a life-long USian. Everywhere I've lived in the US, the police absolutely do not perform regular patrols inside of people's homes. I can tell you from experience that if you don't have the drug deals happening out in the open, then the vast majority of them are going to happen in someone's home. As I mentioned, it's _way_ easier to keep an eye on things when you can funnel it to a relatively small, open area so you can just drive by and see it, than it is to go knocking on a couple-hundred (or even couple-thousand) doors across an entire metro area. And no, I'm not flagging your comments. I don't believe I've flagged any comments on this site, ever. If I disagree sufficiently strongly with a statement, I engage in discussion, as I have here and elsewhere.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  I'd consider that an insult to Amsterdam, a place far cleaner and far safer than SF as a whole and the Tenderloin in particular.
nazka 3y ago
Was the same for me in TL back in 2013. 3 homeless in the street next to a jerrycan in fire and a random cart on the road. I thought this type of stuff were just in movies to make stuff dramatic or maybe in Detroit but not there. I went from Powell to this and I was stunned for a few seconds. I knew about this street and that it was to be avoided but didn’t know where it was. Certainly I didn’t except it to be so close from city center. But that was part of the charm of SF. Now it’s a mess though. It is not charming anymore at the level it is right now. I went back around Covid and it was crazy surreal.

by zgluck 3y ago

dehrmann 3y ago

Someone said the TL is basically Hamsterdam.

canucker2016 3y ago
TL=Tenderloin, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco
- zgluck 3y ago
  Yes, and that was indeed the area I wandered into.
simoncion 3y ago
Aye, it totally is. And it has the benefits that were illustrated in the show. People are going to buy and sell drugs, sex, & etc. It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence.
- zgluck 3y ago
  > It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence. I didn't see any police presence there. Do you have any scientifically researched reason for this claim or is it just a hunch?
  - simoncion 3y ago
    > I didn't see any police presence there. How long did you stick around? A few minutes? In my personal experience, as someone who has lived here for more than a decade, I see regular auto patrols going through the neighborhoods, as well as occasional foot patrols whose purpose seems to be to talk to some of the folks in the area and get a sense of what has been going on lately. This isn't shit you're going to see if you're just passing through... you've gotta stick around and pay attention.
    - zgluck 3y ago
      > Do you have any scientifically researched reason for this claim or is it just a hunch?
      - simoncion 3y ago
        I invite you to discover the wide world of existing literature and research that demonstrates solid links between regular neighborhood mounted and foot patrols and reduction in violent and property crime.
        zgluck 3y ago
        So a case of waving hands violently. Also: Your original claim was "People are going to buy and sell drugs, sex, & etc. It's better to have that out in the open where police can keep an eye on and discourage violence." Not: "solid links between regular neighborhood mounted and foot patrols and reduction in violent and property"
        simoncion 3y ago
        I don't know where you're from, so I don't know how the police operate in your area. I'm a life-long USian. Everywhere I've lived in the US, the police absolutely do not perform regular patrols inside of people's homes. I can tell you from experience that if you don't have the drug deals happening out in the open, then the vast majority of them are going to happen in someone's home. As I mentioned, it's _way_ easier to keep an eye on things when you can funnel it to a relatively small, open area so you can just drive by and see it, than it is to go knocking on a couple-hundred (or even couple-thousand) doors across an entire metro area. And no, I'm not flagging your comments. I don't believe I've flagged any comments on this site, ever. If I disagree sufficiently strongly with a statement, I engage in discussion, as I have here and elsewhere.
the_third_wave 3y ago
I'd consider that an insult to Amsterdam, a place far cleaner and far safer than SF as a whole and the Tenderloin in particular.

nazka 3y ago

Was the same for me in TL back in 2013. 3 homeless in the street next to a jerrycan in fire and a random cart on the road. I thought this type of stuff were just in movies to make stuff dramatic or maybe in Detroit but not there. I went from Powell to this and I was stunned for a few seconds. I knew about this street and that it was to be avoided but didn’t know where it was. Certainly I didn’t except it to be so close from city center. But that was part of the charm of SF. Now it’s a mess though. It is not charming anymore at the level it is right now. I went back around Covid and it was crazy surreal.