3 ms·

I’m an iPhone user so I don’t have much to say about Google Pay, but what is wrong with Apple Pay? I personally find it to be one of the best niceties added to

I’m an iPhone user so I don’t have much to say about Google Pay, but what is wrong with Apple Pay? I personally find it to be one of the best niceties added to the iPhone in the past few years (or at least widely adopted in the US in the past few years, not sure when Apple Pay was launched).

jqpabc123 3y ago
but what is wrong with Apple Pay? I don't use Apple Pay but I suspect the same is wrong as with Google Pay --- it requires you to surrender your identity and financial info to a company that is monetizing your privacy for profit. There are privacy laws that prevent your bank from selling your financial history and details to those who might want to target you. These laws don't apply when Google, Apple and cohorts literally extort you to provide access to this info. Ticketmaster now charges an extra fee if you don't store some event tickets in your Google Wallet --- where Google has full access to them. I suspect something similar is going on with Apple.
- CBarkleyU 3y ago
  > it requires you to surrender your identity and financial info to a company that is monetizing your privacy for profit. As someone who has never owned an Apple device (apart from my work iPhone SE, which I rarely use): I always thought of Apple as a company that I can rather trust with my data. It might be marketing white-washing my brain, but Apple seems to be settled in the selling devices business, not in the "selling data" business. My point being, "monetizing" my privacy is something that I feel very uneasy about with Google but not with Apple, somehow. The former screams "give us your data, so we can use it --- also you get to use this cool app, that relies on it" whereas the latter seems more like "Give us your data so you can use this cool app that relies on it, but honestly your data isnt that profitable to us". Somebody please pop my naivity bubble.
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    Ads are one of the fastest growing revenue sources for Apple[1], they are as much of an advertisement business as any other large tech firm. Ironically enough, you probably see more ads on an Iphone than a Pixel. It's not in the logic of any capitalist firm to be settled on selling anything. They will sell everything they can to maximize value. Arguing about whether they'll settle for anything because you're already paying them a premium is mistaking a company for a person. When they stop Facebook from selling you ads, they do it because they want the slice of that pie. A few years ago streaming services promised you to not see ads again for a flat free, now they all have an ad plan that costs as much as the old one and the ad-free plan costs more. Don't ever think one company is going to protect you from another one. [1] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now
  - NekkoDroid 3y ago
    > The former screams "give us your data, so we can use it --- also you get to use this cool app, that relies on it" whereas the latter seems more like "Give us your data so you can use this cool app that relies on it, but honestly your data isnt that profitable to us". One reason I "trust" Google more than Apple is: I know that Google uses basically everything about me, but they are also kinda open about it. Apple on the contrary always likes to tout that they are oh so privacy friendly while still harvesting data en mass. (Also, basically Googles entire business is about your data, so they better have it safe. Cuz if it starts crumbeling because of EU Laws and similar they basically have no business anymore unlike Apple) And yes, I know it's not the best idea to "trust" even Google.
- ulfw 3y ago
  What is with the hyperbole? "surrender your identity" "monetizing your privacy" Tell me where Apple Pay does that and how I surrendered my identity.
  - jqpabc123 3y ago
    Really? How do you use Apple Pay without connecting a method of payment --- either a debit or a credit card? How do you store a boarding pass in Apple Pay without revealing your identity? You do understand that all of this data gets stored on Apple's servers? Once they have this info, they know exactly who the owner of your particular iPhone is. Your identity has been surrendered --- willingly. Every Apple device has a Universally Unique Identifier (UUID) assigned at the factory. This UUID is constantly relayed to Apple --- along with location and lots of other data. https://www.howtogeek.com/425856/how-to-find-your-mac-iphone-and-ipad%E2%80%99s-uuid/ https://www.howtogeek.com/425856/how-to-find-your-mac-iphone... As a result, they can easily track you personally --- everything you do, everywhere you go, everything you buy with your iPhone --- both on the internet and in the real world. If they really wanted to, they can probably take pictures with your camera and listen in on your iPhone's microphone. Bad news dude, you've been LoJacked -- your privacy is now fully in Apple's hands!
    - ulfw 3y ago
      Wow you must be important. Hun, I don't buy my iPhone with cash at some underground dungeon. I buy it with my credit card with my name on it at an Apple Store. They already know "who I am". And then I associate my Apple ID with my name with said phone. Oh look, they "know who I am" again. Now what? I'm a nobody. And not paranoid to the extreme. Neither am I some important spy guy like you.
      - cartoonworld 3y ago
        I get the sentiment but I don't really like the denigrating tone that people commonly levy towards this issue. I don't think its unreasonable to have a strong skepticism and even hearty distrust of these platforms which have been invited into our lives, ostensibly for the benefit of mankind, only to be treated rather callously in the best instances and negligently in the worst. No, the op is not important. I am not important and on a grand scale individuals are rarely influential in general. I reject that somebody needs to have some kind of spy's double life to demand basic decency wrt their literal moment-to-moment physical status and location.
- pb7 3y ago
  >There are privacy laws that prevent your bank from selling your financial history and details There aren’t really. Banks and Visa/MasterCard are monetizing your data too. Even your phone and internet provider is selling whatever data they have on you. https://mysudo.com/2021/03/shocked-or-not-your-bank-is-selling-your-personal-data https://mysudo.com/2021/03/shocked-or-not-your-bank-is-selli... https://www.fastcompany.com/90490923/credit-card-companies-are-tracking-shoppers-like-never-before-inside-the-next-phase-of-surveillance-capitalism https://www.fastcompany.com/90490923/credit-card-companies-a...

jqpabc123 3y ago

but what is wrong with Apple Pay? I don't use Apple Pay but I suspect the same is wrong as with Google Pay --- it requires you to surrender your identity and financial info to a company that is monetizing your privacy for profit. There are privacy laws that prevent your bank from selling your financial history and details to those who might want to target you. These laws don't apply when Google, Apple and cohorts literally extort you to provide access to this info. Ticketmaster now charges an extra fee if you don't store some event tickets in your Google Wallet --- where Google has full access to them. I suspect something similar is going on with Apple.

CBarkleyU 3y ago
> it requires you to surrender your identity and financial info to a company that is monetizing your privacy for profit. As someone who has never owned an Apple device (apart from my work iPhone SE, which I rarely use): I always thought of Apple as a company that I can rather trust with my data. It might be marketing white-washing my brain, but Apple seems to be settled in the selling devices business, not in the "selling data" business. My point being, "monetizing" my privacy is something that I feel very uneasy about with Google but not with Apple, somehow. The former screams "give us your data, so we can use it --- also you get to use this cool app, that relies on it" whereas the latter seems more like "Give us your data so you can use this cool app that relies on it, but honestly your data isnt that profitable to us". Somebody please pop my naivity bubble.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  Ads are one of the fastest growing revenue sources for Apple[1], they are as much of an advertisement business as any other large tech firm. Ironically enough, you probably see more ads on an Iphone than a Pixel. It's not in the logic of any capitalist firm to be settled on selling anything. They will sell everything they can to maximize value. Arguing about whether they'll settle for anything because you're already paying them a premium is mistaking a company for a person. When they stop Facebook from selling you ads, they do it because they want the slice of that pie. A few years ago streaming services promised you to not see ads again for a flat free, now they all have an ad plan that costs as much as the old one and the ad-free plan costs more. Don't ever think one company is going to protect you from another one. [1] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  > The former screams "give us your data, so we can use it --- also you get to use this cool app, that relies on it" whereas the latter seems more like "Give us your data so you can use this cool app that relies on it, but honestly your data isnt that profitable to us". One reason I "trust" Google more than Apple is: I know that Google uses basically everything about me, but they are also kinda open about it. Apple on the contrary always likes to tout that they are oh so privacy friendly while still harvesting data en mass. (Also, basically Googles entire business is about your data, so they better have it safe. Cuz if it starts crumbeling because of EU Laws and similar they basically have no business anymore unlike Apple) And yes, I know it's not the best idea to "trust" even Google.
ulfw 3y ago
What is with the hyperbole? "surrender your identity" "monetizing your privacy" Tell me where Apple Pay does that and how I surrendered my identity.
- jqpabc123 3y ago
  Really? How do you use Apple Pay without connecting a method of payment --- either a debit or a credit card? How do you store a boarding pass in Apple Pay without revealing your identity? You do understand that all of this data gets stored on Apple's servers? Once they have this info, they know exactly who the owner of your particular iPhone is. Your identity has been surrendered --- willingly. Every Apple device has a Universally Unique Identifier (UUID) assigned at the factory. This UUID is constantly relayed to Apple --- along with location and lots of other data. https://www.howtogeek.com/425856/how-to-find-your-mac-iphone-and-ipad%E2%80%99s-uuid/ https://www.howtogeek.com/425856/how-to-find-your-mac-iphone... As a result, they can easily track you personally --- everything you do, everywhere you go, everything you buy with your iPhone --- both on the internet and in the real world. If they really wanted to, they can probably take pictures with your camera and listen in on your iPhone's microphone. Bad news dude, you've been LoJacked -- your privacy is now fully in Apple's hands!
  - ulfw 3y ago
    Wow you must be important. Hun, I don't buy my iPhone with cash at some underground dungeon. I buy it with my credit card with my name on it at an Apple Store. They already know "who I am". And then I associate my Apple ID with my name with said phone. Oh look, they "know who I am" again. Now what? I'm a nobody. And not paranoid to the extreme. Neither am I some important spy guy like you.
    - cartoonworld 3y ago
      I get the sentiment but I don't really like the denigrating tone that people commonly levy towards this issue. I don't think its unreasonable to have a strong skepticism and even hearty distrust of these platforms which have been invited into our lives, ostensibly for the benefit of mankind, only to be treated rather callously in the best instances and negligently in the worst. No, the op is not important. I am not important and on a grand scale individuals are rarely influential in general. I reject that somebody needs to have some kind of spy's double life to demand basic decency wrt their literal moment-to-moment physical status and location.
pb7 3y ago
>There are privacy laws that prevent your bank from selling your financial history and details There aren’t really. Banks and Visa/MasterCard are monetizing your data too. Even your phone and internet provider is selling whatever data they have on you. https://mysudo.com/2021/03/shocked-or-not-your-bank-is-selling-your-personal-data https://mysudo.com/2021/03/shocked-or-not-your-bank-is-selli... https://www.fastcompany.com/90490923/credit-card-companies-are-tracking-shoppers-like-never-before-inside-the-next-phase-of-surveillance-capitalism https://www.fastcompany.com/90490923/credit-card-companies-a...