4 ms·

Apple loves to hide functionality to the point where it essentially doesn't exist. When I started at Apple as an engineer, the first bug I filed was "Can't res

Apple loves to hide functionality to the point where it essentially doesn't exist. When I started at Apple as an engineer, the first bug I filed was "Can't resize windows from their edges" (or any corner except one). Just mind-bogglingly stupid. And when Apple finally does capitulate and admit that others have done it better, they petulantly try to hide the functionality anyway. In the case of the windows, there's no window border and the cursor frequently fails to change to the "resizing" one. In the case of two-button mice, Apple came out with a mouse that hid the second button and in fact was nearly unusable because the entire shell was the button so you couldn't lift the mouse and keep the button held to continue a scroll. And on and on. Oh, and then Apple added Alt-Tab-style app switching... but it's often useless because when you Command-Tab to an app, Apple doesn't restore its window. It remains minimized and useless in the dock. There is a utility called Alt-Tab that lets you fix this, at least. And those are just a couple...

baq 3y ago
> utility called Alt-Tab I think you’ve saved my life
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  The developer is cool and responds to requests, including this one I made: If you Command-Tab to an app that doesn't have a window (AKA Finder), it will create one for you (optionally).
vladvasiliu 3y ago
My favorite is how, if you have multiple windows of the same app visible, when you cmd-tab to that app, it moves all of the windows to the top of the stack. So if you want to switch between windows of two different apps, you better hide the ones you don't use.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  For me it's almost the opposite. I can't cmd-tab between different windows of the same app. I can use cmd+~ to switch between windows of the same app, but I always forget that and end up cmd+tab'ing though all my apps trying to find where my second Chrome window is.
  - dfex 3y ago
    How the hell have I never come across Cmd ~ before?!! Thank you so much!!!
  - zogrodea 3y ago
    That cmd-tab behaviour sounds similar to GNOME (haven't tried other desktop environments) on Linux. There, you can use alt-tab to cycle through different types of applications but if you want to cycle through different instances of the same application, you have to use alt-` or super-` to do that. It takes some getting used to in all honesty and I don't know if I like it.
- somat 3y ago
  My favorite "weird" thing common in X11 window managers is how they can separate the focus and the raising operations. On windows(and I presume mac) these operations are tightly linked. Why would you want to separate them you might ask? It turns out to be really useful to look at the window on the top and be able to type/control the obscured window underneath. On the one hand X11 sort of sucked with it's inconsistent window handling mechanisms. On the other hand because there was no central policy some very good novel productivity advancements were made in X11 space. select/single click paste, focus follows mouse, don't raise on focus. tiling window managers.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    It won't let you type, but you can interact with most inactive windows on macOS by holding down Command and left/right clicking. Very useful for selecting text in an inactive window and copying it without first bringing the window forward.
  - technofiend 3y ago
    There's probably a way to force windows and macos to stop this, but I also miss that in X, default window manager behavior didn't allow a new window to forcibly yank focus. I'll chose to place and type in that new window on my schedule, thank you very much.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    IIRC, it's been possible for a long time to just scroll an inactive window on macOS, without it gaining focus. I was happy to learn that Windows also got that somewhat recently. Having an IDE up front and checking on docs or similar in a background browser with part of the website obscured is something I missed since I moved to Linux and a tiling window manager. Now I have to waste screen space showing the menu or other useless junk on the sides of the actual text. I can sometimes zoom in and scroll just right, but others the site insists on showing me all three columns at the same time. I also liked the macOS approach of not having the first click in a background window fire an action. Now I always have to watch where I click if I want to switch windows with the mouse. I think KDE might have a setting to work like this, though.
GeorgeTirebiter 3y ago
I only have an iPad these days, I now use Windows; but when I did use MacOS, has Apple fixed your first bug? Can you resize windows from any edge or corner now, or must one always uses the lower right corner only to resize the window?
- watermelon0 3y ago
  Yes, now you can resize from any corner/edge.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Does it show the cursor hint though? If I remember correctly, the confusing part was finding the part of the edge that allowed you to resize as the mouse remained a pointer.
    - watermelon0 3y ago
      Yes, it shows cursor hint for both edges and corners.
    - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      That is the fundamental problem with the implementation. Apple doesn't have frames on their windows, and often the resizing cursor fails to appear. The cursor problem also occasionally afflicts splitter bars in other Mac UI, however. I don't remember how often this splitter-bar problem happens on Windows.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  It took years, but yes. Years after that, Apple was going to fix another one: The Delete key (the real one, not the Backspace key that Apple mislabels "delete") does nothing in Finder. It should send files to the trash, as it does in Windows (and probably every other desktop GUI). They pushed the bug back to me as "will not do," which I bounced back with an argument that forcing people to drag, drag, drag stuff to the trash all day made the Mac look clumsy and dumb in comparison to Windows. To my surprise, they actually reconsidered and added the deletion function to Finder. I don't remember the OS version, but it may have been Jaguar betas. A few months later, someone on an internal mailing list posted, "Hey, what happened to the Delete key working in Finder? I was really enjoying that!" Sure enough, the function had been pulled at the last minute before release. I investigated, and was told that ONE person had objected to the behavior, claiming that his cat might delete stuff by walking on the keyboard. Seriously. I wrote an even longer protest, pointing out that this was the entire purpose of the trash-can paradigm: to prevent accidental deletions. I also observed that it was pretty sad that Apple no longer understood a paradigm that it had popularized. But to this day, the Delete key does nothing in Finder. Absurd.
fyloraspit 3y ago
I think bettertouchtools is the best to get macos to the point of usability with regard to window management and other general OS QoL. Linux really does beat out everything for this type of stuff imo. The best window management, sometimes even by default and everything customisable almost to the point of perfection.
wellthisisgreat 3y ago
> when you Command-Tab to an app, Apple doesn't restore its window. You can hold OPT as you pick the window in the cmd+TAB mode, and that would open all of its windows. It's quite convenient actually.

baq 3y ago

> utility called Alt-Tab I think you’ve saved my life

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
The developer is cool and responds to requests, including this one I made: If you Command-Tab to an app that doesn't have a window (AKA Finder), it will create one for you (optionally).

vladvasiliu 3y ago

My favorite is how, if you have multiple windows of the same app visible, when you cmd-tab to that app, it moves all of the windows to the top of the stack. So if you want to switch between windows of two different apps, you better hide the ones you don't use.

squeaky-clean 3y ago
For me it's almost the opposite. I can't cmd-tab between different windows of the same app. I can use cmd+~ to switch between windows of the same app, but I always forget that and end up cmd+tab'ing though all my apps trying to find where my second Chrome window is.
- dfex 3y ago
  How the hell have I never come across Cmd ~ before?!! Thank you so much!!!
- zogrodea 3y ago
  That cmd-tab behaviour sounds similar to GNOME (haven't tried other desktop environments) on Linux. There, you can use alt-tab to cycle through different types of applications but if you want to cycle through different instances of the same application, you have to use alt-` or super-` to do that. It takes some getting used to in all honesty and I don't know if I like it.
somat 3y ago
My favorite "weird" thing common in X11 window managers is how they can separate the focus and the raising operations. On windows(and I presume mac) these operations are tightly linked. Why would you want to separate them you might ask? It turns out to be really useful to look at the window on the top and be able to type/control the obscured window underneath. On the one hand X11 sort of sucked with it's inconsistent window handling mechanisms. On the other hand because there was no central policy some very good novel productivity advancements were made in X11 space. select/single click paste, focus follows mouse, don't raise on focus. tiling window managers.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  It won't let you type, but you can interact with most inactive windows on macOS by holding down Command and left/right clicking. Very useful for selecting text in an inactive window and copying it without first bringing the window forward.
- technofiend 3y ago
  There's probably a way to force windows and macos to stop this, but I also miss that in X, default window manager behavior didn't allow a new window to forcibly yank focus. I'll chose to place and type in that new window on my schedule, thank you very much.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  IIRC, it's been possible for a long time to just scroll an inactive window on macOS, without it gaining focus. I was happy to learn that Windows also got that somewhat recently. Having an IDE up front and checking on docs or similar in a background browser with part of the website obscured is something I missed since I moved to Linux and a tiling window manager. Now I have to waste screen space showing the menu or other useless junk on the sides of the actual text. I can sometimes zoom in and scroll just right, but others the site insists on showing me all three columns at the same time. I also liked the macOS approach of not having the first click in a background window fire an action. Now I always have to watch where I click if I want to switch windows with the mouse. I think KDE might have a setting to work like this, though.

GeorgeTirebiter 3y ago

I only have an iPad these days, I now use Windows; but when I did use MacOS, has Apple fixed your first bug? Can you resize windows from any edge or corner now, or must one always uses the lower right corner only to resize the window?

watermelon0 3y ago
Yes, now you can resize from any corner/edge.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Does it show the cursor hint though? If I remember correctly, the confusing part was finding the part of the edge that allowed you to resize as the mouse remained a pointer.
  - watermelon0 3y ago
    Yes, it shows cursor hint for both edges and corners.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    That is the fundamental problem with the implementation. Apple doesn't have frames on their windows, and often the resizing cursor fails to appear. The cursor problem also occasionally afflicts splitter bars in other Mac UI, however. I don't remember how often this splitter-bar problem happens on Windows.
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
It took years, but yes. Years after that, Apple was going to fix another one: The Delete key (the real one, not the Backspace key that Apple mislabels "delete") does nothing in Finder. It should send files to the trash, as it does in Windows (and probably every other desktop GUI). They pushed the bug back to me as "will not do," which I bounced back with an argument that forcing people to drag, drag, drag stuff to the trash all day made the Mac look clumsy and dumb in comparison to Windows. To my surprise, they actually reconsidered and added the deletion function to Finder. I don't remember the OS version, but it may have been Jaguar betas. A few months later, someone on an internal mailing list posted, "Hey, what happened to the Delete key working in Finder? I was really enjoying that!" Sure enough, the function had been pulled at the last minute before release. I investigated, and was told that ONE person had objected to the behavior, claiming that his cat might delete stuff by walking on the keyboard. Seriously. I wrote an even longer protest, pointing out that this was the entire purpose of the trash-can paradigm: to prevent accidental deletions. I also observed that it was pretty sad that Apple no longer understood a paradigm that it had popularized. But to this day, the Delete key does nothing in Finder. Absurd.

fyloraspit 3y ago

I think bettertouchtools is the best to get macos to the point of usability with regard to window management and other general OS QoL. Linux really does beat out everything for this type of stuff imo. The best window management, sometimes even by default and everything customisable almost to the point of perfection.

wellthisisgreat 3y ago

> when you Command-Tab to an app, Apple doesn't restore its window. You can hold OPT as you pick the window in the cmd+TAB mode, and that would open all of its windows. It's quite convenient actually.