6 ms·

remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statisti

by hknmtt 3y ago

remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.

einpoklum 3y ago
The police' main purpose is to protect the social order internally, by enforcing social relations (foremost being property and the authority of state institutions). As for punishing crime - technically, the police is not supposed to decide whether crimes have been committed, nor to meet out out punishment for them. Really is a different thing, of course - but even then, the punishment is for police-undesirable behavior.
- mrweasel 3y ago
  Not sure what the English term is, but Denmark operates with the "three separations of power". Parliament makes the laws, the police enforce them and the judicial system punished. The police, for good and bad, is never suppose to decide whether or not a law is right or wrong, how it's punished and to what extend. If the police have become a punishing force, or even make the rules, then something has gone very wrong. Now even in civilized societies things sometimes goes wrong, e.g. the parliament provides police with too broad a framework to operate within, in an attempt to be "tough on crime" or attempt to dictate the framework of the judicial system to ensure a minimum sentencing. It's just rare that the police force itself is to blame. Blame mostly falls back to the people writing the laws.
hyperman1 3y ago
The USA police is a bit of an exception here, being overly militarized, not kept in check by judges and politicians, and historically having a side job of fugitive slave catchers. Around the world, the core job of the police is more: Restore the public peace. They can forgive transgressions in public if you demonstrate further disturbance of peace will cease. They have to maintain a reasonable level of fairness, or they get overrun by vigilantes. But as long as the illusion of fairness holds good enough, they can and will crush powerless people in the wheels of justice.
- neural_thing 3y ago
  You have to be more specific than "around the world" here. I grew up in a country where the "core job of the police" is to extort bribes. My guess is that's pretty similar to the experience of the majority of the people living today.
- ajross 3y ago
  Corrupt law enforcement is hardly a US invention. That's frankly just silly. In fact US police are... middle of the pack at worst. It's true that there are some policy implications in the US that seem weird, in particular the level of weaponry deployed and the politicization of activist slogans like "Defund", but if anything that speaks to police behavior in the US being more criticized and more constrained. America is fine, basically. Yes, cops are empowered bullies who do bad things. But that's been true for thousands of years. We're farther down the path to trying to fix that, not behind.
- some_random 3y ago
  It's so funny reading this after scrolling past a bunch of Western Europeans (what I assume you mean by "around the world", since that's almost always what's meant) talking about how they can be arrested for not carrying identification on them at all times. As an American, it sounds like your judges and politicians haven't even tried to keep them in check.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    > a bunch of Western Europeans (what I assume […] As an American, it sounds like your judges and politicians haven't even tried to keep them in check. Wait, what? You don’t know if this is a Western European thing but you just took that “from the rest of the world”? I guess I could do the same: (1) I’m not from America (the majority here), (2) I haven’t experienced bully police asking for id, so (3) I’ll just assume that that’s an American thing. How funny!
    - some_random 3y ago
      As a white American I also haven't really had any bad experiences with cops, it's something commonly referred to as "privilege". If you'd like to read about other peoples experiences with police in Western Europe, here's the start of that thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36372948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36372948
gumby 3y ago
“No one likes a cop until they need one”. Cops are not inherently your foe, but that does not imply that they are in any way inherently your friend, even when you are part of the “in group”. In the US the relatively recent shift to use of the term “law enforcement” both reflects and drives a self-destructive nature in the broad culture. Your insightful point, “The police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it” has several implications. First is that even if you have a positive view of the cops (and if you are not in an “out group” you should) you still should follow this advice. If you’re not chatting with your next door neighbor the cop at a bbq, what you are is an unpleasant barrier to getting their job done with a minimum of hassle. Like you think of Jira or Confluence. Another implication is to understand that their role, in cultural norm, in who it attracts to the job, and simply the cumulative impact of what they are exposed to, drives what I will euphemistically call “destructive impact”. We need cops like we need the weather, but that doesn’t mean we don’t take steps to deal with the destructive force of storms, and even to minimize storm generation. Unfortunately the US is in a phase where they think the more brutality the better. In that the cops correctly reflect what they are asked to do.
- sneak 3y ago
  > Cops are not inherently your foe From a game theoretical POV this is false; no good can come from speaking to them, and only bad can.
  - GolDDranks 3y ago
    How is that true? I've submitted some lost property reports on a local police box, and at least once they've found it. Clearly a positive outcome.
  - gumby 3y ago
    I won’t categorically say the opposite, but I think your statement is overwrought. If someone murdered your spouse, or tried to run you down with a car, who are you going to call? In the first case at least they are surely going to suspect you, so you should still be careful. But “no good can come of it”?
reducesuffering 3y ago
I must've just imagined the police preventing my neighbors' home burglary in the act, and stopping the time last week a man stripped naked and tried to assault the ladies at the nail salon. I'm the brainwashed one

by hknmtt 3y ago

einpoklum 3y ago

The police' main purpose is to protect the social order internally, by enforcing social relations (foremost being property and the authority of state institutions). As for punishing crime - technically, the police is not supposed to decide whether crimes have been committed, nor to meet out out punishment for them. Really is a different thing, of course - but even then, the punishment is for police-undesirable behavior.

mrweasel 3y ago
Not sure what the English term is, but Denmark operates with the "three separations of power". Parliament makes the laws, the police enforce them and the judicial system punished. The police, for good and bad, is never suppose to decide whether or not a law is right or wrong, how it's punished and to what extend. If the police have become a punishing force, or even make the rules, then something has gone very wrong. Now even in civilized societies things sometimes goes wrong, e.g. the parliament provides police with too broad a framework to operate within, in an attempt to be "tough on crime" or attempt to dictate the framework of the judicial system to ensure a minimum sentencing. It's just rare that the police force itself is to blame. Blame mostly falls back to the people writing the laws.

hyperman1 3y ago

The USA police is a bit of an exception here, being overly militarized, not kept in check by judges and politicians, and historically having a side job of fugitive slave catchers. Around the world, the core job of the police is more: Restore the public peace. They can forgive transgressions in public if you demonstrate further disturbance of peace will cease. They have to maintain a reasonable level of fairness, or they get overrun by vigilantes. But as long as the illusion of fairness holds good enough, they can and will crush powerless people in the wheels of justice.

neural_thing 3y ago
You have to be more specific than "around the world" here. I grew up in a country where the "core job of the police" is to extort bribes. My guess is that's pretty similar to the experience of the majority of the people living today.
ajross 3y ago
Corrupt law enforcement is hardly a US invention. That's frankly just silly. In fact US police are... middle of the pack at worst. It's true that there are some policy implications in the US that seem weird, in particular the level of weaponry deployed and the politicization of activist slogans like "Defund", but if anything that speaks to police behavior in the US being more criticized and more constrained. America is fine, basically. Yes, cops are empowered bullies who do bad things. But that's been true for thousands of years. We're farther down the path to trying to fix that, not behind.
some_random 3y ago
It's so funny reading this after scrolling past a bunch of Western Europeans (what I assume you mean by "around the world", since that's almost always what's meant) talking about how they can be arrested for not carrying identification on them at all times. As an American, it sounds like your judges and politicians haven't even tried to keep them in check.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  > a bunch of Western Europeans (what I assume […] As an American, it sounds like your judges and politicians haven't even tried to keep them in check. Wait, what? You don’t know if this is a Western European thing but you just took that “from the rest of the world”? I guess I could do the same: (1) I’m not from America (the majority here), (2) I haven’t experienced bully police asking for id, so (3) I’ll just assume that that’s an American thing. How funny!
  - some_random 3y ago
    As a white American I also haven't really had any bad experiences with cops, it's something commonly referred to as "privilege". If you'd like to read about other peoples experiences with police in Western Europe, here's the start of that thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36372948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36372948

gumby 3y ago

“No one likes a cop until they need one”. Cops are not inherently your foe, but that does not imply that they are in any way inherently your friend, even when you are part of the “in group”. In the US the relatively recent shift to use of the term “law enforcement” both reflects and drives a self-destructive nature in the broad culture. Your insightful point, “The police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it” has several implications. First is that even if you have a positive view of the cops (and if you are not in an “out group” you should) you still should follow this advice. If you’re not chatting with your next door neighbor the cop at a bbq, what you are is an unpleasant barrier to getting their job done with a minimum of hassle. Like you think of Jira or Confluence. Another implication is to understand that their role, in cultural norm, in who it attracts to the job, and simply the cumulative impact of what they are exposed to, drives what I will euphemistically call “destructive impact”. We need cops like we need the weather, but that doesn’t mean we don’t take steps to deal with the destructive force of storms, and even to minimize storm generation. Unfortunately the US is in a phase where they think the more brutality the better. In that the cops correctly reflect what they are asked to do.

sneak 3y ago
> Cops are not inherently your foe From a game theoretical POV this is false; no good can come from speaking to them, and only bad can.
- GolDDranks 3y ago
  How is that true? I've submitted some lost property reports on a local police box, and at least once they've found it. Clearly a positive outcome.
- gumby 3y ago
  I won’t categorically say the opposite, but I think your statement is overwrought. If someone murdered your spouse, or tried to run you down with a car, who are you going to call? In the first case at least they are surely going to suspect you, so you should still be careful. But “no good can come of it”?

reducesuffering 3y ago

I must've just imagined the police preventing my neighbors' home burglary in the act, and stopping the time last week a man stripped naked and tried to assault the ladies at the nail salon. I'm the brainwashed one