4 ms·

0 chance. That's $270k after tax for a single earner family. A US middle class 4br/2ba 1800 sqft. SFH is $50k/yr to rent within 30 minutes of Google. So $220k i

0 chance. That's $270k after tax for a single earner family. A US middle class 4br/2ba 1800 sqft. SFH is $50k/yr to rent within 30 minutes of Google. So $220k in disposable income while US median household income is just $70k.

gedy 3y ago
Sure, but I'd count home ownership in a safe area as a middle class metric. That would at least double the housing costs.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  Plenty options <= $1.5m , so $8.2k - $9k monthly PITI. In the worse case, you consider that lost $ and now your disposable is still $162k. But actually, rent is closer to the net housing cost, because owning will reduce your taxes, increasing income ~$1k/mth, another + ~$2k/mth into equity, and another + $2k/mth inflation (loan is chipped away), so you're still looking at $4k/mth actual cost (if not less).
p1esk 3y ago
If most of population is poor, median is poor.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  US is one of the richest countries in the world. People on average have more land, spacious SFH, and new vehicles.
  - p1esk 3y ago
    That’s probably why they also have the highest amount of debt.
armatav 3y ago
$6k+ per month in Mountain View minimum to not live in a shack.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  No one is required to live next door to your job, and even if you were, you've only changed the calculus to be $200k disposable income?
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  Here's a 4bed condo for $4k right next to Google: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-N-Rengstorff-Ave-APT-20-Mountain-View-CA-94043/19513581_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-N-Rengstorff-Ave-APT-... Newark or Fremont is within 30 minutes drive (usually within 40 for rush hour) and there's tons at that price point. On the Google side of the bay there's many around $5k. And honestly, as pointed out, an extra $10-20k on housing doesn't really change the point anyway.
  - armatav 3y ago
    It makes it higher than the median wage he mentioned…
    - ahahahahah 3y ago
      So what? That again doesn't at all change the point of the argument, which had nothing to do with affordability of those rentals for people making median wage or anything else. It only mentioned that median as a comparison to how much disposable income someone making that amount would still have even after paying bay area rents.
      - armatav 3y ago
        Read. “I suppose, that’s probably what you need to have a middle-class lifestyle up there too” The point I’m making is that the median middle class income, $70k/year, doesn’t work - which is in agreement with him - pay attention.
DeRock 3y ago
Your rent price is way off, you’re looking at 6k/month (72k/year) for a 4-bed, at least.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  So $200k disposable income then? Also, news to me since I'm in a $4.2k/mth rental, and feel free to view all the <= $4k 4-bed within commuting distance: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/?searchQueryState=%7B%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22San%20Jose%2C%20CA%22%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.35612447670108%2C%22east%22%3A-121.88233907631046%2C%22south%22%3A37.306227816458474%2C%22north%22%3A37.61689569189577%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22price%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A0%2C%22max%22%3A792043%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A0%2C%22max%22%3A4000%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A4%7D%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22days%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22con%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22tow%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apco%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fr%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22fsba%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fsbo%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22nc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fore%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A11%7D https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/?searchQueryState=%7B%...

gedy 3y ago

Sure, but I'd count home ownership in a safe area as a middle class metric. That would at least double the housing costs.

reducesuffering 3y ago
Plenty options <= $1.5m , so $8.2k - $9k monthly PITI. In the worse case, you consider that lost $ and now your disposable is still $162k. But actually, rent is closer to the net housing cost, because owning will reduce your taxes, increasing income ~$1k/mth, another + ~$2k/mth into equity, and another + $2k/mth inflation (loan is chipped away), so you're still looking at $4k/mth actual cost (if not less).

p1esk 3y ago

If most of population is poor, median is poor.

reducesuffering 3y ago
US is one of the richest countries in the world. People on average have more land, spacious SFH, and new vehicles.
- p1esk 3y ago
  That’s probably why they also have the highest amount of debt.

armatav 3y ago

$6k+ per month in Mountain View minimum to not live in a shack.

reducesuffering 3y ago
No one is required to live next door to your job, and even if you were, you've only changed the calculus to be $200k disposable income?
ahahahahah 3y ago
Here's a 4bed condo for $4k right next to Google: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-N-Rengstorff-Ave-APT-20-Mountain-View-CA-94043/19513581_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/701-N-Rengstorff-Ave-APT-... Newark or Fremont is within 30 minutes drive (usually within 40 for rush hour) and there's tons at that price point. On the Google side of the bay there's many around $5k. And honestly, as pointed out, an extra $10-20k on housing doesn't really change the point anyway.
- armatav 3y ago
  It makes it higher than the median wage he mentioned…
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    So what? That again doesn't at all change the point of the argument, which had nothing to do with affordability of those rentals for people making median wage or anything else. It only mentioned that median as a comparison to how much disposable income someone making that amount would still have even after paying bay area rents.
    - armatav 3y ago
      Read. “I suppose, that’s probably what you need to have a middle-class lifestyle up there too” The point I’m making is that the median middle class income, $70k/year, doesn’t work - which is in agreement with him - pay attention.

DeRock 3y ago

Your rent price is way off, you’re looking at 6k/month (72k/year) for a 4-bed, at least.

reducesuffering 3y ago
So $200k disposable income then? Also, news to me since I'm in a $4.2k/mth rental, and feel free to view all the <= $4k 4-bed within commuting distance: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/?searchQueryState=%7B%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22San%20Jose%2C%20CA%22%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.35612447670108%2C%22east%22%3A-121.88233907631046%2C%22south%22%3A37.306227816458474%2C%22north%22%3A37.61689569189577%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22price%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A0%2C%22max%22%3A792043%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A0%2C%22max%22%3A4000%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A4%7D%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22days%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22con%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22tow%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apco%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fr%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22fsba%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fsbo%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22nc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fore%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A11%7D https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/?searchQueryState=%7B%...