3 ms·

Honest question, no trolling: for Jews and Muslims, the "kosher" and "halal" labels are heavily regulated, and AFAIK there isn't any great controversy about sha

Honest question, no trolling: for Jews and Muslims, the "kosher" and "halal" labels are heavily regulated, and AFAIK there isn't any great controversy about shady operators self-labeling their ordinary foods in order to sell more (or is there?). So as a (former) Catholic: why can't the Church do something similar? Is it only because the market for sacramental wine is so much smaller than the market for halal foods?

cratermoon 3y ago
At least for kosher I'm aware that rabbis inspect and approve the manufacturing facility and process directly. This is doubly true for items labeled "Kosher for Passover". https://oukosher.org/passover/articles/what-is-kosher-for-passover/ https://oukosher.org/passover/articles/what-is-kosher-for-pa...
bradleyjg 3y ago
The kashrut authorities have found an interesting loophole. It’s a violation of the first amendment for a state to directly ban the labeling of unkosher food as kosher. Too much entanglement with religion. However the various authorities have registered trademarks like ou and k. Enforcing ordinary trademark law runs into no constitutional issues.
- mbg721 3y ago
  I see the kashrut trademarks as a good workaround that lets legitimate religious objections work well with American law.
no-reply 3y ago
As far as "halal", there have been shady operators doing self-labeling. [1] There are also companies that do not follow the halal process completely/properly but still label themselves as halal. For example, the animal (cow/cattle/lamb/camel/...) has to be slaughtered from below the neck by a Muslim man by hand while making the animal face a certain direction and also reciting prayer. What do these companies do ? They have the prayers on speaker and a robot/machine that slaughters the animals. Is it halal ? No. But there are some agencies who would gladly give you a "halal" certification for some money, and now you are certified halal. "Halal" word in Arabic just means permissible. In the food context, we look for halal (permissible stuff, not logo) in not just meat, but also any product that contains animal by products/byproducts, like cheese for example. Microbial rennet is okay, animal rennet not so much. We usually avoid eating factory made food that contain animal products/byproducts. If it is something that can has vegetable and animal sources, then we check the ingredients/labels to see if something is specified. Sometimes they clearly specify vegetable source. Otherwise if source is not clear, or if not sure about the certification agency, we either look for a kosher label on that (if it contains some animal products/byproducts) or manually call the company and ask away any questions. If both of those are not possible, we look for something else. [1]. https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+halal+meat https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+halal+meat
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  It is also common for the butcher to just have the bismillah written on the knife (at least in Pak)
- MandieD 3y ago
  Huh. I've had a very devout (hair-covering hijab, wouldn't even go swimming at the same time as our male colleagues in her "burkini") Muslim colleague tell me that she doesn't mind eating kosher meat if that's what's on offer, because Jews do things properly; otherwise, it's vegan for her to avoid whatever Germans do to otherwise perfectly good green beans or Käsespatzle (for those unfamiliar with southern Germany: yes, there's probably pork in there, unless otherwise specified)

cratermoon 3y ago

At least for kosher I'm aware that rabbis inspect and approve the manufacturing facility and process directly. This is doubly true for items labeled "Kosher for Passover". https://oukosher.org/passover/articles/what-is-kosher-for-passover/ https://oukosher.org/passover/articles/what-is-kosher-for-pa...

bradleyjg 3y ago

The kashrut authorities have found an interesting loophole. It’s a violation of the first amendment for a state to directly ban the labeling of unkosher food as kosher. Too much entanglement with religion. However the various authorities have registered trademarks like ou and k. Enforcing ordinary trademark law runs into no constitutional issues.

mbg721 3y ago
I see the kashrut trademarks as a good workaround that lets legitimate religious objections work well with American law.

no-reply 3y ago

As far as "halal", there have been shady operators doing self-labeling. [1] There are also companies that do not follow the halal process completely/properly but still label themselves as halal. For example, the animal (cow/cattle/lamb/camel/...) has to be slaughtered from below the neck by a Muslim man by hand while making the animal face a certain direction and also reciting prayer. What do these companies do ? They have the prayers on speaker and a robot/machine that slaughters the animals. Is it halal ? No. But there are some agencies who would gladly give you a "halal" certification for some money, and now you are certified halal. "Halal" word in Arabic just means permissible. In the food context, we look for halal (permissible stuff, not logo) in not just meat, but also any product that contains animal by products/byproducts, like cheese for example. Microbial rennet is okay, animal rennet not so much. We usually avoid eating factory made food that contain animal products/byproducts. If it is something that can has vegetable and animal sources, then we check the ingredients/labels to see if something is specified. Sometimes they clearly specify vegetable source. Otherwise if source is not clear, or if not sure about the certification agency, we either look for a kosher label on that (if it contains some animal products/byproducts) or manually call the company and ask away any questions. If both of those are not possible, we look for something else. [1]. https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+halal+meat https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+halal+meat

selimthegrim 3y ago
It is also common for the butcher to just have the bismillah written on the knife (at least in Pak)
MandieD 3y ago
Huh. I've had a very devout (hair-covering hijab, wouldn't even go swimming at the same time as our male colleagues in her "burkini") Muslim colleague tell me that she doesn't mind eating kosher meat if that's what's on offer, because Jews do things properly; otherwise, it's vegan for her to avoid whatever Germans do to otherwise perfectly good green beans or Käsespatzle (for those unfamiliar with southern Germany: yes, there's probably pork in there, unless otherwise specified)