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On the flip side I purchased my last home with a lawyer who's also a real estate agent. They only represent the buyer and provide all services for a flat fee th

On the flip side I purchased my last home with a lawyer who's also a real estate agent. They only represent the buyer and provide all services for a flat fee that's tiered on the home price. It doesn't fix the Realtor problem with insane fees and idiotic sales tactics. But it allowed me to buy my home with far less out-of-pocket and at the end they handed me a 5-figure check as a rebate. This would have been his insane commission for doing very little. I don't understand how people still are just giving their money away to "Realtors" who, ultimately, unlock doors. The majority can't actually read or understand a contract (I sued Redfin because a Realtor working for them lost my earnest money when they failed to understand something as simple as a date), very few of them actually know anything about a home or what to look for and finally, these days, most buyers do 90%+ of the work to find the home they want. Do most people use travel agents anymore? Why use a Realtor?

judge2020 3y ago
> Why use a Realtor? Just to inquire, do you mean Realtor® or just a salesperson/agent? Any salesperson/agent can get their license by taking a short training course, and can then subscribe to lead websites like Zillow etc. But becoming a Realtor is at least a bit more commitment to knowing how real estate actually works and advising your client on good decisions, in addition to being bound by the Realtor code of ethics. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/when-is-a-real-estate-agent-a-realtor https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/when-is-a-real-estate-agen...
- windexh8er 3y ago
  I'm sorry but the Realtor code of ethics is BS. I've read what Realtors are bound by and I've found those folks doing shady things. Like a common practice is for a Realtor to not mark a property as pending before it goes contingent. This allows the Realtor to pretend to potential clients that the property is still for sale and can drag it out in case something like an inspection causes the pending buyers to back out. I found one Realtor in my area that never issued a Pending update to any of his properties and submitted it to the Realtors Association as abuse. In their own language an agent has to update the status within, last I checked, 48 hours. They completely ignored me. When I brought up sharing this with local news outlets as a common, and shady, practice they said they would "look into it". They never responded beyond that. Being a Realtor doesn't mean you know anything about legal contracts or are able to inspect a home properly. It's a self serving organization that's sole focus is on revenue. Not the buyer and not the seller. There's very little, if any good that organization brings to market - that is unless you're a fan of monopolistic organizations that will do anything to keep out competition.
  - montgomster 3y ago
    Your comments and your experience are one of the reasons we do not use multiple listing services. The other reason is that they are very inefficient and time consuming. The methods and operations originated over one hundred years ago. I have written a column [1]that better explains how agents work. It is a generalization as not all agents work like this. The real estate organizations are trade organizations. Their members are agents. They protect the folks that are paying good money to be members. [1}https://dearmonty.com/is-your-buyer-agent-legitimate/ https://dearmonty.com/is-your-buyer-agent-legitimate/
    - windexh8er 3y ago
      I really hope you disrupt the industry. Even if, as you say, your target market is mostly FSBO. Taking anything away from the Realtor organization is only making things better. Good luck!
      - montgomster 3y ago
        Thank you for your comment. We are not trying to disrupt necessarily. We are offer a third choice. Until yesterday's launch you had two choices: For-sale-by-owner (FSBO) or some type of real estate agent. We believe either choice has numerous pain points or friction. Now PropBox is the alternate third choice. It is designed to eliminate all the pain points. It is accurate, fast, efficient, and cheap. PropBox is a Tech Advertising Company not a real estate company. We use technology , standardization, and simplicity built into our Service As A Software (SaaS)product. Many don't pay enough attention to their largest single investment so they will be the last to realize and adapt. In my opinion that will take years.
  - jimmydddd 3y ago
    Also, in the US, if you are the buyer, "your" Realtor is typically being paid by the seller, so it's hard to say who their customer is. After I found the listing for my current house, I had to practically force my Realtor to find out about it. I later found out from the seller's Realtor (for the whole development) that they were forcing lower commissions on the buyer's Realtor, so a lot of Realtors were not showing their customers the house.
- smugma 3y ago
  You also need to pass a test (and find a broker to oversee your license) to become a real estate salesperson.
  - montgomster 3y ago
    Correct. Thanks for pitching in.
- montgomster 3y ago
  Many real estate salesperson agents who are not brokers can become Realtors. The broker license requires more hours of study and some states require a salesperson to complete a certain number of hours or transaction before they can become a broker. All salespersons must hang their license with a broker so there are no salespersons wandering around if they are practicing. If they are between brokers or inactive they may not need a broker in some state. According to ARELLO [1] there are over 3 million real estate brokers and salespersons in the US. About half are Realtors. I hope this information helps.[1] https://www.arello.org/ https://www.arello.org/
montgomster 3y ago
You won't get any argument from me. PropBox completely replaces the need for real estate agents and MLS listings. PropBox enables you to sell your home fast with no fees - on a secure platform with a very easy process. It takes about 10-12 hours of your time and the seller saves based on home value $25K to $75K. One point you mentioned is there is an association called the National Association of Exclusive Buyer Agents.[1] They operate similar to your lawyer. What I like about them is that they cannot work in a traditional real estate office that takes listings. That is where the term a"exclusive" has meaning. They only represent buyers so they shun the listing commissions to remove any potential conflict of interest. This is why there are not very many of them. What this suggests to me is that they are of high moral character and their advice can be trusted. The downside is you may not be able to find one near you. If I were buying a home I would definitely interview one. Another tactic I have observed is the number of home buyer that believed they used a buyer agent but did not sign a contract. In my state and I believe many others, this means you were actually working with a sub-agent of the seller, or a transactional agent. Thank you for your input. [1]https://naeba.org/ https://naeba.org/
- mooreds 3y ago
  > PropBox completely replaces the need for real estate agents and MLS listings. Disclaimer: I worked for a real estate brokerage (as a software developer) for about 8 years, did a real estate based startup in the mid 2000s, and have transacted using real estate agents as well. It has been years since I was deep in the real estate business, but it does leave scars. It is possible that PropBox displaces real estate agents. From what I've seen, there are plenty of crappy agents. Good riddance, get rid of them. Good agents don't just open doors, they: * know the local market and help you price a property correctly. Say it with me, 'real estate is not fungible'. * are known in the market and can help find buyers (when it's a buyer's market and sellers are struggling) * can connect you with trusted people who can help you assess and market the property, including inspectors, engineers, stagers, landscapers, etc * understand how to get a transaction (with all the moving pieces) done. Especially in a difficult market, this can be the difference between selling a home or not, or getting a good price or not, or selling it in a reasonable timeframe or not. Is that worth $35k (or 3% of <home price>)? Depends on what your time is worth and their incremental value, esp in terms of pricing and marketing. What is selling a house one week faster worth? It depends on your situation, stress level, etc. As others in other threads have mentioned, there are definitely other paths if you want to do more work yourself. What drives me nuts about the $35k or other high figure mentioned by people when talking about real estate agents for "just opening doors". No one ever mentions the meetings with people who will never buy, the people you've been providing real estate advice for 5 years, or the lookie-loos who see 50 properties to and then decide "the time isn't right". This is opportunity cost that the real estate agent eats regularly. I don't know if 3% commission is the right number (I suspect it is high, based on how other countries do real estate buying) but that time isn't free. I've also known that several real estate brokerages have tried to do things similar to the NAEBA (Redfin started out with realtors on salary) but that led to a lemons problem since great realtors who could help with the above migrated to brokerages where they could make more money. Brokers have existed for high value, relatively rare transactions for many years because the stakes are high. I found this book very illuminating on the value of middleman like real estate agents: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-137-53020-2 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-137-53020-2 It is simply not possible that PropBox displaces the MLS until there is a critical mass of listings on the site. Zillow took years and years to get there (maybe a decade) and they had the benefit of all the public sector data and a sexy Zestimate. I'm not sure that PropBox has that kind of pull. And it's actually *MLSes*. They each are pretty peculiar fiefdoms that many people have tried to storm, only to be co-opted, because they control the listing data, and the access to the listing data is really the only thing that matters. (Well, maybe access to mortgages too.) Anyway, there's tons of money flowing through real estate, so maybe I'm totally wrong and you'll revolutionize it and make a fortune. Good luck!

judge2020 3y ago

> Why use a Realtor? Just to inquire, do you mean Realtor® or just a salesperson/agent? Any salesperson/agent can get their license by taking a short training course, and can then subscribe to lead websites like Zillow etc. But becoming a Realtor is at least a bit more commitment to knowing how real estate actually works and advising your client on good decisions, in addition to being bound by the Realtor code of ethics. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/when-is-a-real-estate-agent-a-realtor https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/when-is-a-real-estate-agen...

windexh8er 3y ago
I'm sorry but the Realtor code of ethics is BS. I've read what Realtors are bound by and I've found those folks doing shady things. Like a common practice is for a Realtor to not mark a property as pending before it goes contingent. This allows the Realtor to pretend to potential clients that the property is still for sale and can drag it out in case something like an inspection causes the pending buyers to back out. I found one Realtor in my area that never issued a Pending update to any of his properties and submitted it to the Realtors Association as abuse. In their own language an agent has to update the status within, last I checked, 48 hours. They completely ignored me. When I brought up sharing this with local news outlets as a common, and shady, practice they said they would "look into it". They never responded beyond that. Being a Realtor doesn't mean you know anything about legal contracts or are able to inspect a home properly. It's a self serving organization that's sole focus is on revenue. Not the buyer and not the seller. There's very little, if any good that organization brings to market - that is unless you're a fan of monopolistic organizations that will do anything to keep out competition.
- montgomster 3y ago
  Your comments and your experience are one of the reasons we do not use multiple listing services. The other reason is that they are very inefficient and time consuming. The methods and operations originated over one hundred years ago. I have written a column [1]that better explains how agents work. It is a generalization as not all agents work like this. The real estate organizations are trade organizations. Their members are agents. They protect the folks that are paying good money to be members. [1}https://dearmonty.com/is-your-buyer-agent-legitimate/ https://dearmonty.com/is-your-buyer-agent-legitimate/
  - windexh8er 3y ago
    I really hope you disrupt the industry. Even if, as you say, your target market is mostly FSBO. Taking anything away from the Realtor organization is only making things better. Good luck!
    - montgomster 3y ago
      Thank you for your comment. We are not trying to disrupt necessarily. We are offer a third choice. Until yesterday's launch you had two choices: For-sale-by-owner (FSBO) or some type of real estate agent. We believe either choice has numerous pain points or friction. Now PropBox is the alternate third choice. It is designed to eliminate all the pain points. It is accurate, fast, efficient, and cheap. PropBox is a Tech Advertising Company not a real estate company. We use technology , standardization, and simplicity built into our Service As A Software (SaaS)product. Many don't pay enough attention to their largest single investment so they will be the last to realize and adapt. In my opinion that will take years.
- jimmydddd 3y ago
  Also, in the US, if you are the buyer, "your" Realtor is typically being paid by the seller, so it's hard to say who their customer is. After I found the listing for my current house, I had to practically force my Realtor to find out about it. I later found out from the seller's Realtor (for the whole development) that they were forcing lower commissions on the buyer's Realtor, so a lot of Realtors were not showing their customers the house.
smugma 3y ago
You also need to pass a test (and find a broker to oversee your license) to become a real estate salesperson.
- montgomster 3y ago
  Correct. Thanks for pitching in.
montgomster 3y ago
Many real estate salesperson agents who are not brokers can become Realtors. The broker license requires more hours of study and some states require a salesperson to complete a certain number of hours or transaction before they can become a broker. All salespersons must hang their license with a broker so there are no salespersons wandering around if they are practicing. If they are between brokers or inactive they may not need a broker in some state. According to ARELLO [1] there are over 3 million real estate brokers and salespersons in the US. About half are Realtors. I hope this information helps.[1] https://www.arello.org/ https://www.arello.org/

montgomster 3y ago

You won't get any argument from me. PropBox completely replaces the need for real estate agents and MLS listings. PropBox enables you to sell your home fast with no fees - on a secure platform with a very easy process. It takes about 10-12 hours of your time and the seller saves based on home value $25K to $75K. One point you mentioned is there is an association called the National Association of Exclusive Buyer Agents.[1] They operate similar to your lawyer. What I like about them is that they cannot work in a traditional real estate office that takes listings. That is where the term a"exclusive" has meaning. They only represent buyers so they shun the listing commissions to remove any potential conflict of interest. This is why there are not very many of them. What this suggests to me is that they are of high moral character and their advice can be trusted. The downside is you may not be able to find one near you. If I were buying a home I would definitely interview one. Another tactic I have observed is the number of home buyer that believed they used a buyer agent but did not sign a contract. In my state and I believe many others, this means you were actually working with a sub-agent of the seller, or a transactional agent. Thank you for your input. [1]https://naeba.org/ https://naeba.org/

mooreds 3y ago
> PropBox completely replaces the need for real estate agents and MLS listings. Disclaimer: I worked for a real estate brokerage (as a software developer) for about 8 years, did a real estate based startup in the mid 2000s, and have transacted using real estate agents as well. It has been years since I was deep in the real estate business, but it does leave scars. It is possible that PropBox displaces real estate agents. From what I've seen, there are plenty of crappy agents. Good riddance, get rid of them. Good agents don't just open doors, they: * know the local market and help you price a property correctly. Say it with me, 'real estate is not fungible'. * are known in the market and can help find buyers (when it's a buyer's market and sellers are struggling) * can connect you with trusted people who can help you assess and market the property, including inspectors, engineers, stagers, landscapers, etc * understand how to get a transaction (with all the moving pieces) done. Especially in a difficult market, this can be the difference between selling a home or not, or getting a good price or not, or selling it in a reasonable timeframe or not. Is that worth $35k (or 3% of <home price>)? Depends on what your time is worth and their incremental value, esp in terms of pricing and marketing. What is selling a house one week faster worth? It depends on your situation, stress level, etc. As others in other threads have mentioned, there are definitely other paths if you want to do more work yourself. What drives me nuts about the $35k or other high figure mentioned by people when talking about real estate agents for "just opening doors". No one ever mentions the meetings with people who will never buy, the people you've been providing real estate advice for 5 years, or the lookie-loos who see 50 properties to and then decide "the time isn't right". This is opportunity cost that the real estate agent eats regularly. I don't know if 3% commission is the right number (I suspect it is high, based on how other countries do real estate buying) but that time isn't free. I've also known that several real estate brokerages have tried to do things similar to the NAEBA (Redfin started out with realtors on salary) but that led to a lemons problem since great realtors who could help with the above migrated to brokerages where they could make more money. Brokers have existed for high value, relatively rare transactions for many years because the stakes are high. I found this book very illuminating on the value of middleman like real estate agents: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-137-53020-2 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-137-53020-2 It is simply not possible that PropBox displaces the MLS until there is a critical mass of listings on the site. Zillow took years and years to get there (maybe a decade) and they had the benefit of all the public sector data and a sexy Zestimate. I'm not sure that PropBox has that kind of pull. And it's actually *MLSes*. They each are pretty peculiar fiefdoms that many people have tried to storm, only to be co-opted, because they control the listing data, and the access to the listing data is really the only thing that matters. (Well, maybe access to mortgages too.) Anyway, there's tons of money flowing through real estate, so maybe I'm totally wrong and you'll revolutionize it and make a fortune. Good luck!