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I wouldn’t mythologize the elites of the past too much. FDR’s grandfather made his fortune selling opium in China.

jongjong 3y ago
Ok so in this case he was not a moral person but at least it sounds like he may have had the other two characteristics. I think a major difference between now and then is that the world was a far more adverse and chaotic place for many reasons; people died frequently from all sorts of diseases, there were more wars and invasions, traveling to other countries was potentially life-threatening (e.g. you could be killed by the natives or succumb to previously unknown threats like exotic diseases, spiders, snakes, lions, tigers, poisonous plants, etc... Not to mention the substantial difficulties involved in communicating with locals in a foreign language). There really wasn't any support or fallback if one's plans failed; you would just die, no second chances. The elite of today couldn't hold a candle to those who came before them. Today, they're mostly a bunch of spoiled brats who inherited a lot of wealth and never faced any real adversity in their lives (which wasn't of their own making to begin with)...
busterarm 3y ago
> FDR’s grandfather made his fortune selling opium in China. Horrible as that sounds, think about it from the other side's perspective. The one-way trade of silver was putting huge strain on the global economy. Opium was the _only_ thing people in China would buy with silver (illegally, obviously). They didn't have alternatives as China wouldn't circulate silver back out of the country. What Warren Delano was doing was in most nations' interest at the time. Heavy trade imbalances almost invariably lead to wars throughout history.
- mbg721 3y ago
  So is the current West living in a powder-keg? Our consumer economy relies on heavy trade imbalances.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    They tend to be evened out in aggregate with different imports/exports. Also we're not talking an apples to apples comparison here. Back then economies were extremely dependent on silver for international trade and only so much of it came from so many places every year. Trade depended on recirculation of silver. The closest you could get to that today would be one country hoarding the shit out of US dollars and somehow the US being unable to print more. If you look back to the 90s/00s when the US was heavily importing from China and China had no local buying power, the trade imbalance was combatted by the US Treasury creating debt instruments for exclusive buying by China. This diplomatic/economic tool benefited both sides at the time.
    - mbg721 3y ago
      This kind of depends on US Dollar hegemony, doesn't it? What happens if the Dollar loses prominence?

Ok so in this case he was not a moral person but at least it sounds like he may have had the other two characteristics. I think a major difference between now and then is that the world was a far more adverse and chaotic place for many reasons; people died frequently from all sorts of diseases, there were more wars and invasions, traveling to other countries was potentially life-threatening (e.g. you could be killed by the natives or succumb to previously unknown threats like exotic diseases, spiders, snakes, lions, tigers, poisonous plants, etc... Not to mention the substantial difficulties involved in communicating with locals in a foreign language). There really wasn't any support or fallback if one's plans failed; you would just die, no second chances. The elite of today couldn't hold a candle to those who came before them. Today, they're mostly a bunch of spoiled brats who inherited a lot of wealth and never faced any real adversity in their lives (which wasn't of their own making to begin with)...

busterarm 3y ago

> FDR’s grandfather made his fortune selling opium in China. Horrible as that sounds, think about it from the other side's perspective. The one-way trade of silver was putting huge strain on the global economy. Opium was the _only_ thing people in China would buy with silver (illegally, obviously). They didn't have alternatives as China wouldn't circulate silver back out of the country. What Warren Delano was doing was in most nations' interest at the time. Heavy trade imbalances almost invariably lead to wars throughout history.

mbg721 3y ago
So is the current West living in a powder-keg? Our consumer economy relies on heavy trade imbalances.
- busterarm 3y ago
  They tend to be evened out in aggregate with different imports/exports. Also we're not talking an apples to apples comparison here. Back then economies were extremely dependent on silver for international trade and only so much of it came from so many places every year. Trade depended on recirculation of silver. The closest you could get to that today would be one country hoarding the shit out of US dollars and somehow the US being unable to print more. If you look back to the 90s/00s when the US was heavily importing from China and China had no local buying power, the trade imbalance was combatted by the US Treasury creating debt instruments for exclusive buying by China. This diplomatic/economic tool benefited both sides at the time.
  - mbg721 3y ago
    This kind of depends on US Dollar hegemony, doesn't it? What happens if the Dollar loses prominence?