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I (edit: I mean, "we", of course) did relax the German language requirement once, and did find talent from eastern Europe, but for the whole team, it just felt

I (edit: I mean, "we", of course) did relax the German language requirement once, and did find talent from eastern Europe, but for the whole team, it just felt too awkward having to segregate meetings between English and German speaking crowd. Both sides had shown some inflexibility. Especially older Germans finding it too much trouble having to speak English and complaining that they can't fully express themselves, while the few English-speaking complaining about the poor quality of the generated subtitles and leaving, in the extremely rare (once or twice per year) event that they got invited into a German-speaking meeting (things like Townhall meetings and such, nothing too important). So after a year or two, most left. On the other hand, many new graduates are complaining that they can't find a job, while most of them fail at fizzbuzz (I hate the silly brain-teaser interviews just as the next person but fizzbuzz, come on!), rest get totally demotivated when they hear that they can't just code 100% greenfield projects and/or show zero interest in learning anything that's not React. I'm known to be lazy, but I came here 14 years ago as the kid who develops small business sites in Perl/PHP and had the motivation to learn German, learn all the -ends (back, front, embedded, had the "chance" to do weird stuff with RFID gates and such), learned to do ETL stuff, involved in consulting, architecture and so on... Many colleagues did the same as well. Currently in a lead position but I've learned a lot how the Java ecosystem works and involved even in JSF in my current job! My point is, I never had the worry to be irrelevant because there were always something next, but currently most juniors just want the one true and tested way to go forward. I sincerely don't get why.

fatfingerd 3y ago
I think your expectations aren't really inline with the environment from the perspective of these different possible employees. In Switzerland, my minimum salary expectation was 30k more a year if working in English for a US/International company remotely or here, that was extremely realistic and someone in Germany would be looking at a much larger loss in pay when working for a German firm. If they are making that choice they may think local job and culture should be rubbing off as a benefit, so you only need to send them to one general event to show their limited potential upside isn't making progress per year despite high cost per year.
- egeozcan 3y ago
  I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get the last part, are you suggesting that when we send these employees to an event (like a meeting or a town hall), they realize that their potential for growth and progress might be limited because they don't speak the language? If so, I don't think it takes them to be in those events, even, to understand that. This is a problem we simply cannot solve. By the way, I never heard anyone complain about their salary on the exit interviews. It's almost always the bad integration to the rest of the team/company, and sometimes having to deal with technology they'd rather keep away from (JSF! :) ). I know the salaries the company offers aren't comparable to what is offered across the pond but they are quite competitive in Europe.
  - fatfingerd 3y ago
    They are taking a lower pay presumably because integration with a local company is important to them. Your exit interview reflects that.. You are showing them that they aren't getting that if they occasionally go to the all hands and realize they have no idea what's going, aren't really able to participate in the larger context and don't really see a way that will improve. They could continue to look for another local employer that does better at integrating them or they could stop considering integration with any local employer and get an immediate pay rise. I'm curious where you would put the top pay of say a senior front end or back end engineer in Germany. I would say the Swiss market has a funny soft limit about 130CHF that's similar to the US around 160USD, where HRs level of fidgety in negotiations escalates fast. Most Germans I know who have gone back and forth between Switzerland and Germany were very unhappy with German compensation but not happy with their integration in Switzerland.

fatfingerd 3y ago

I think your expectations aren't really inline with the environment from the perspective of these different possible employees. In Switzerland, my minimum salary expectation was 30k more a year if working in English for a US/International company remotely or here, that was extremely realistic and someone in Germany would be looking at a much larger loss in pay when working for a German firm. If they are making that choice they may think local job and culture should be rubbing off as a benefit, so you only need to send them to one general event to show their limited potential upside isn't making progress per year despite high cost per year.

egeozcan 3y ago
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get the last part, are you suggesting that when we send these employees to an event (like a meeting or a town hall), they realize that their potential for growth and progress might be limited because they don't speak the language? If so, I don't think it takes them to be in those events, even, to understand that. This is a problem we simply cannot solve. By the way, I never heard anyone complain about their salary on the exit interviews. It's almost always the bad integration to the rest of the team/company, and sometimes having to deal with technology they'd rather keep away from (JSF! :) ). I know the salaries the company offers aren't comparable to what is offered across the pond but they are quite competitive in Europe.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  They are taking a lower pay presumably because integration with a local company is important to them. Your exit interview reflects that.. You are showing them that they aren't getting that if they occasionally go to the all hands and realize they have no idea what's going, aren't really able to participate in the larger context and don't really see a way that will improve. They could continue to look for another local employer that does better at integrating them or they could stop considering integration with any local employer and get an immediate pay rise. I'm curious where you would put the top pay of say a senior front end or back end engineer in Germany. I would say the Swiss market has a funny soft limit about 130CHF that's similar to the US around 160USD, where HRs level of fidgety in negotiations escalates fast. Most Germans I know who have gone back and forth between Switzerland and Germany were very unhappy with German compensation but not happy with their integration in Switzerland.