5 ms·

A Huawei bid turned into a hunt for a corporate mole

108 points by NicoJuicy 3y ago

usernomdeguerre 3y ago
Wow, i'd heard general political complaints about Huawei but never stuff like this: "The day the TDC team set up in Plesner’s offices, the law firm’s IT systems came under a denial-of-service hacking attack." "At 12:20 a.m. on March 20, a security guard patrolling the Plesner offices noticed lights floating outside the 15th-floor room where TDC’s team had been working. Peering into the glare, he saw a large drone. For 10 minutes it remained there, flying up, down and sideways. Then it descended out of sight. Upon learning of the incident the following morning, the TDC investigators realized they’d failed to close the shades in the office. There was a wall-size whiteboard facing the windows on which they’d been tracing all of their leads, and it would have been in full view." Makes it much more clear why there was so much saber-rattling about them.
- nirui 3y ago
  This is what "wolf cult" i mean "culture" get you I guess :( There is another story from ancient times tells the tale about two big telecom company in China stealing or damaging each other's production equipment/infrastructures installed on the streets... knowing that, the act of photographing your whiteboard with drone suddenly sounded well within the realm of possible things that could happen.
  - TechBro8615 3y ago
    If anyone else is confused about the "wolf cult[ure]" reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/huawei-workers-iran-sanctions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/huawei-workers...
    - News-Dog 3y ago
      Wolf Warrior - International Influence : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior#International_influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior#International_inf... China's aggressive 'Wolf Warrior Diplomacy' : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy
- richbell 3y ago
  Huawei also greatly benefited from Chinese espionage targeting Nortel, which was Canada's premiere tech company at the time.
  - transcriptase 3y ago
    There were rumours ~10 years ago that a planned repurposing of a Nortel complex to government offices was cancelled because the buildings were found to be riddled with (presumably Huawei) bugs.
    - somerandomqaguy 3y ago
      It was delayed at least. National Defense Headquarters was moved into the Nortel Campus in 2017 or so.
  - FormerBandmate 3y ago
    Also Huawei’s ownership structure is notoriously opaque
  - andersrs 3y ago
    It would be very easy for them to pull it off vs the other way around. So many Chinese people work in Canada. But practically no western people work in China.
    - NicoJuicy 3y ago
      And that's because of China being afraid of what they are doing abroad.
  - PradeetPatel 3y ago
    As someone who worked in both China and Canada over the last decade, I'm surprised that we didn't hear more or it from the Canadian side. I am not a lawyer, but surely there are legal consequences to utilising intellectual properties obtained via illegitimate means, any legal specialists here?
- civilitty 3y ago
  BRB going to turn my commercial drone license into a ChatGPT-enabled corporate-espionage-as-a-service. That's some James Bond sh*t right there!
- foobarian 3y ago
  What kind of amateur doesn’t camouflage the clandestine drone lights. Those things are blindingly bright
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Maybe they needed to illuminate the whiteboard through the window.
  - PradeetPatel 3y ago
    IIRC obscuring drone lights is against the Danish Civil Aviation laws.
    - chihuahua 3y ago
      and of course Huawei would never do anything that violates Danish Civil Aviation laws!
      - justsomehnguy 3y ago
        "Only break one law at a time"
justinclift 3y ago
https://archive.is/1zlDh https://archive.is/1zlDh
archo 3y ago
https://archive.is/2KsHM https://archive.is/2KsHM Archive directly from host www.bloomberg.com podcast : https://omny.fm/shows/listen-to-the-story/how-a-huawei-mole-got-caught-trying-to-swing-a-200 https://omny.fm/shows/listen-to-the-story/how-a-huawei-mole-...
Simulacra 3y ago
China really is the single greatest threat to global peace and freedom. What they cannot buy, they steal, and what they cannot steal, they threaten and intimidate. IP theft is just the tip of the iceberg, don't forget Chinese police stations in western countries, and infiltration through universities. There is enough, reasonable, logical, and very well investigated information that points to China as a serious bad actor. A clear and present danger to global security.
- vaidhy 3y ago
  hmm.. every country capable of doing this does this. Does not make it right.. but singling out china is just drinking too much of kool aid.
  - LordShredda 3y ago
    China should be made an example of
    - vaidhy 3y ago
      Maybe the biggest offender should be made an example of??
      - Incipient 3y ago
        Yeah. China. The difference with China is that it's a deliberate coordinated plan from a single entity; the Chinese government. Essentially they're one mega-monopoly with incredible power without even a whiff of altruism.
        s5300 3y ago
        [dead]
        quantum_state 3y ago
        Snowden used to work for that single entity too …
nekitamo 3y ago
I'm no fan of China or Huawei (quite the opposite in fact), but I'd like to pause and inject a dose of skepticism into the conversation. Bloomberg's previous piece about China installing tiny chips onto server hardware to spy on tech giants was called out as a big lie: - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... - https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro-call-bloomberg-retract-china-spy-chip-story/ https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro... Now we have a similarly sensational story about China coming from them. Should we trust them? Or is this just another small skirmish in the larger information war being waged between USA vs China around the world right now. A war where truth was the first casualty.
- azinman2 3y ago
  Well we know that Huawei fully stole Nortel’s IP as well as Cisco’s software. So it’s not exactly a squeaky clean company.
  - nekitamo 3y ago
    China and Huawei are extremely sketchy and have committed all sorts of corruption and theft. They deserve to be viewed with suspicion and sanctioned. That doesn’t make this story true though. Particularly when you consider how discredited this particular journalist’s previous story about China was.
    - NicoJuicy 3y ago
      (from another comment) TDC has stated to Danish media that they "recognize parts of the story" but have refused to elaborate. They haven't wished to refute any parts either. https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-dele-af-historie-om-kinesisk-spionage https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-del...
      - sterlind 3y ago
dlgeek 3y ago
This is from Bloomberg Businessweek? They still haven't retracted the sensationalist story about SuperMicro and Amazon and secret Chinese spy chips, right? Take these claims with a huge grain of salt.
- nekitamo 3y ago
  It's even the same journalist as the previous sensationalist story: Jordan Robertson. - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... - https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro-call-bloomberg-retract-china-spy-chip-story/ https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro... Something smells fishy.
- madmoose 3y ago
  TDC has stated to Danish media that they "recognize parts of the story" but have refused to elaborate. They haven't wished to refute any parts either. https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-dele-af-historie-om-kinesisk-spionage https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-del...
dirtyid 3y ago
Bloomberg reporting on PRC not passing basic smell test once again. Huawei having significantly higher bid than Ericsson should raise some eyebrows. Or Somehow Huawei having the tradecraft to monitor TDC employee teams but alledged TDC mole just goes on casual coffee meeting with Huawei bidder. None of the claims in article links activities to Huawei. What does make sense for why this article exists in context of historic Danish-US security apparatus cooperation that against Danish interests + bloomberg publication bias is this is another planted intelligence hit piece. Like what even is the last bit on random drone landing in van suppose to insinuate. That Huawei is so powerful it has legion of intellgience assets operating opennly in Denmark that has somehow not been prosecuted.
dagmx 3y ago
All speculation aside, this would make for a really great docudrama
steve_gh 3y ago
I used to work for Motorola. Even back in the 2000s we were extremely cautious around Huawei. I recall it being pretty standard that any important meetings while overseas and near Huawei folks would always take place in the middle of the hotel pool.
a_random_canuck 3y ago
Huawei, and basically every Chinese corporation, should be considered extensions of the communist party as they can be used, willingly or unwilling, for espionage and any other national security purpose the Party compels them to, and they must comply in secret. That’s Chinese national security law.

108 points by NicoJuicy 3y ago

Wow, i'd heard general political complaints about Huawei but never stuff like this: "The day the TDC team set up in Plesner’s offices, the law firm’s IT systems came under a denial-of-service hacking attack." "At 12:20 a.m. on March 20, a security guard patrolling the Plesner offices noticed lights floating outside the 15th-floor room where TDC’s team had been working. Peering into the glare, he saw a large drone. For 10 minutes it remained there, flying up, down and sideways. Then it descended out of sight. Upon learning of the incident the following morning, the TDC investigators realized they’d failed to close the shades in the office. There was a wall-size whiteboard facing the windows on which they’d been tracing all of their leads, and it would have been in full view." Makes it much more clear why there was so much saber-rattling about them.

nirui 3y ago
This is what "wolf cult" i mean "culture" get you I guess :( There is another story from ancient times tells the tale about two big telecom company in China stealing or damaging each other's production equipment/infrastructures installed on the streets... knowing that, the act of photographing your whiteboard with drone suddenly sounded well within the realm of possible things that could happen.
- TechBro8615 3y ago
  If anyone else is confused about the "wolf cult[ure]" reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/huawei-workers-iran-sanctions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/huawei-workers...
  - News-Dog 3y ago
    Wolf Warrior - International Influence : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior#International_influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior#International_inf... China's aggressive 'Wolf Warrior Diplomacy' : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy
richbell 3y ago
Huawei also greatly benefited from Chinese espionage targeting Nortel, which was Canada's premiere tech company at the time.
- transcriptase 3y ago
  There were rumours ~10 years ago that a planned repurposing of a Nortel complex to government offices was cancelled because the buildings were found to be riddled with (presumably Huawei) bugs.
  - somerandomqaguy 3y ago
    It was delayed at least. National Defense Headquarters was moved into the Nortel Campus in 2017 or so.
- FormerBandmate 3y ago
  Also Huawei’s ownership structure is notoriously opaque
- andersrs 3y ago
  It would be very easy for them to pull it off vs the other way around. So many Chinese people work in Canada. But practically no western people work in China.
  - NicoJuicy 3y ago
    And that's because of China being afraid of what they are doing abroad.
- PradeetPatel 3y ago
  As someone who worked in both China and Canada over the last decade, I'm surprised that we didn't hear more or it from the Canadian side. I am not a lawyer, but surely there are legal consequences to utilising intellectual properties obtained via illegitimate means, any legal specialists here?
civilitty 3y ago
BRB going to turn my commercial drone license into a ChatGPT-enabled corporate-espionage-as-a-service. That's some James Bond sh*t right there!
foobarian 3y ago
What kind of amateur doesn’t camouflage the clandestine drone lights. Those things are blindingly bright
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Maybe they needed to illuminate the whiteboard through the window.
- PradeetPatel 3y ago
  IIRC obscuring drone lights is against the Danish Civil Aviation laws.
  - chihuahua 3y ago
    and of course Huawei would never do anything that violates Danish Civil Aviation laws!
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      "Only break one law at a time"

justinclift 3y ago

https://archive.is/1zlDh https://archive.is/1zlDh

archo 3y ago

https://archive.is/2KsHM https://archive.is/2KsHM Archive directly from host www.bloomberg.com podcast : https://omny.fm/shows/listen-to-the-story/how-a-huawei-mole-got-caught-trying-to-swing-a-200 https://omny.fm/shows/listen-to-the-story/how-a-huawei-mole-...

Simulacra 3y ago

China really is the single greatest threat to global peace and freedom. What they cannot buy, they steal, and what they cannot steal, they threaten and intimidate. IP theft is just the tip of the iceberg, don't forget Chinese police stations in western countries, and infiltration through universities. There is enough, reasonable, logical, and very well investigated information that points to China as a serious bad actor. A clear and present danger to global security.

vaidhy 3y ago
hmm.. every country capable of doing this does this. Does not make it right.. but singling out china is just drinking too much of kool aid.
- LordShredda 3y ago
  China should be made an example of
  - vaidhy 3y ago
    Maybe the biggest offender should be made an example of??
    - Incipient 3y ago
      Yeah. China. The difference with China is that it's a deliberate coordinated plan from a single entity; the Chinese government. Essentially they're one mega-monopoly with incredible power without even a whiff of altruism.
      - s5300 3y ago
        [dead]
      - quantum_state 3y ago
        Snowden used to work for that single entity too …

nekitamo 3y ago

I'm no fan of China or Huawei (quite the opposite in fact), but I'd like to pause and inject a dose of skepticism into the conversation. Bloomberg's previous piece about China installing tiny chips onto server hardware to spy on tech giants was called out as a big lie: - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... - https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro-call-bloomberg-retract-china-spy-chip-story/ https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro... Now we have a similarly sensational story about China coming from them. Should we trust them? Or is this just another small skirmish in the larger information war being waged between USA vs China around the world right now. A war where truth was the first casualty.

azinman2 3y ago
Well we know that Huawei fully stole Nortel’s IP as well as Cisco’s software. So it’s not exactly a squeaky clean company.
- nekitamo 3y ago
  China and Huawei are extremely sketchy and have committed all sorts of corruption and theft. They deserve to be viewed with suspicion and sanctioned. That doesn’t make this story true though. Particularly when you consider how discredited this particular journalist’s previous story about China was.
  - NicoJuicy 3y ago
    (from another comment) TDC has stated to Danish media that they "recognize parts of the story" but have refused to elaborate. They haven't wished to refute any parts either. https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-dele-af-historie-om-kinesisk-spionage https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-del...
    - sterlind 3y ago

dlgeek 3y ago

This is from Bloomberg Businessweek? They still haven't retracted the sensationalist story about SuperMicro and Amazon and secret Chinese spy chips, right? Take these claims with a huge grain of salt.

nekitamo 3y ago
It's even the same journalist as the previous sensationalist story: Jordan Robertson. - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... - https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro-call-bloomberg-retract-china-spy-chip-story/ https://siliconangle.com/2018/10/22/apple-amazon-super-micro... Something smells fishy.
madmoose 3y ago
TDC has stated to Danish media that they "recognize parts of the story" but have refused to elaborate. They haven't wished to refute any parts either. https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-dele-af-historie-om-kinesisk-spionage https://nyheder.tv2.dk/business/2023-06-16-tdc-genkender-del...

dirtyid 3y ago

Bloomberg reporting on PRC not passing basic smell test once again. Huawei having significantly higher bid than Ericsson should raise some eyebrows. Or Somehow Huawei having the tradecraft to monitor TDC employee teams but alledged TDC mole just goes on casual coffee meeting with Huawei bidder. None of the claims in article links activities to Huawei. What does make sense for why this article exists in context of historic Danish-US security apparatus cooperation that against Danish interests + bloomberg publication bias is this is another planted intelligence hit piece. Like what even is the last bit on random drone landing in van suppose to insinuate. That Huawei is so powerful it has legion of intellgience assets operating opennly in Denmark that has somehow not been prosecuted.

dagmx 3y ago

All speculation aside, this would make for a really great docudrama

steve_gh 3y ago

I used to work for Motorola. Even back in the 2000s we were extremely cautious around Huawei. I recall it being pretty standard that any important meetings while overseas and near Huawei folks would always take place in the middle of the hotel pool.

a_random_canuck 3y ago

Huawei, and basically every Chinese corporation, should be considered extensions of the communist party as they can be used, willingly or unwilling, for espionage and any other national security purpose the Party compels them to, and they must comply in secret. That’s Chinese national security law.