3 ms·

Your definition it isn’t. My definition it is. Affirmative consent can not be given in worker/employer relationships. Which makes the entire contract predatory

Your definition it isn’t. My definition it is. Affirmative consent can not be given in worker/employer relationships. Which makes the entire contract predatory.

WalterBright 3y ago
You can make up definitions to mean whatever you want to, I see that rhetorical trick all the time. It doesn't work with me, though. > Affirmative consent can not be given in worker/employer relationships. Which makes the entire contract predatory. Another rhetorical trick: A is not equal to B, therefore A is not equal to B.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  You think it's possible to have a fair deal where the literal life of one party (the worker) depends on the outcome, but not the other party (the employer)? Because that seems to be what you are saying here.
  - nickpp 3y ago
    Isn’t that the case every time one buys any life essentials like food, drinkable water, clothing, shelter and heating/cooling? Are all of those unfair deals? Because that seems to be what you are saying here.
    - Paul-Craft 3y ago
      I think you're getting it. Please continue. :)
      - nickpp 3y ago
        They are also all more affordable and more readily available than they ever been in the history of this mankind. I couldn’t be happier with these deals… I don’t think you are making the argument you think you are.
        Paul-Craft 3y ago
        I think I am, but thank you for your concern. Did you see the part in the history books where capitalism increased work hours and decreased real wages for workers for hundreds of years? Happy to provide sources if you're going to actually read and engage with them, and not going to just dismiss them.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  > It doesn't work with me, though. That’s fine. A lot of our culture is based upon force and preserving vestiges of slavery. This happens subconsciously. It takes a lot of reflection to understand a lot of what we’ve basically accepted as the way to go in the western economic model is beyond unfair and fucked.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    I hear that fatalism and defeatism all the time on HN. It's sad. In the US, you are not a slave, and you have choices, and you can negotiate. > is beyond unfair and fucked. Oh baloney. The US has the highest standard of living in the world. US poor live better than medieval kings. That's why literally millions of poor people from other countries try desperately to get in to the US. A note about fairness. Life isn't fair. It cannot be made fair. Everybody's circumstance is different. Some are taller, some shorter, some smarter, some dumber, some healthier, some sickly, it goes on and on. Just look at sports teams. They're all about exaggerating how unfair it is. But what the US does try to do is: 1. have everyone equal under the law 2. guarantee certain fundamental rights The rest is up to you to make the most of your opportunities. Note that (1) and (2) are under relentless assault in this country, often in the name of producing equal results.

Your definition it isn’t. My definition it is. Affirmative consent can not be given in worker/employer relationships. Which makes the entire contract predatory.

WalterBright 3y ago

You can make up definitions to mean whatever you want to, I see that rhetorical trick all the time. It doesn't work with me, though. > Affirmative consent can not be given in worker/employer relationships. Which makes the entire contract predatory. Another rhetorical trick: A is not equal to B, therefore A is not equal to B.

Paul-Craft 3y ago
You think it's possible to have a fair deal where the literal life of one party (the worker) depends on the outcome, but not the other party (the employer)? Because that seems to be what you are saying here.
- nickpp 3y ago
  Isn’t that the case every time one buys any life essentials like food, drinkable water, clothing, shelter and heating/cooling? Are all of those unfair deals? Because that seems to be what you are saying here.
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    I think you're getting it. Please continue. :)
    - nickpp 3y ago
      They are also all more affordable and more readily available than they ever been in the history of this mankind. I couldn’t be happier with these deals… I don’t think you are making the argument you think you are.
      - Paul-Craft 3y ago
        I think I am, but thank you for your concern. Did you see the part in the history books where capitalism increased work hours and decreased real wages for workers for hundreds of years? Happy to provide sources if you're going to actually read and engage with them, and not going to just dismiss them.
aaomidi 3y ago
> It doesn't work with me, though. That’s fine. A lot of our culture is based upon force and preserving vestiges of slavery. This happens subconsciously. It takes a lot of reflection to understand a lot of what we’ve basically accepted as the way to go in the western economic model is beyond unfair and fucked.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  I hear that fatalism and defeatism all the time on HN. It's sad. In the US, you are not a slave, and you have choices, and you can negotiate. > is beyond unfair and fucked. Oh baloney. The US has the highest standard of living in the world. US poor live better than medieval kings. That's why literally millions of poor people from other countries try desperately to get in to the US. A note about fairness. Life isn't fair. It cannot be made fair. Everybody's circumstance is different. Some are taller, some shorter, some smarter, some dumber, some healthier, some sickly, it goes on and on. Just look at sports teams. They're all about exaggerating how unfair it is. But what the US does try to do is: 1. have everyone equal under the law 2. guarantee certain fundamental rights The rest is up to you to make the most of your opportunities. Note that (1) and (2) are under relentless assault in this country, often in the name of producing equal results.