6 ms·

Sounds like the reason why there's a backlash against exposing kids to all of these controversial topics in the "culture wars" in the West.

sbelskie 3y ago
Can you expand on this? I find it hard to understand what similarities you see to what children today are being “exposed” to and Charles Manson drugging people with LSD and convincing them to kill other people.
- riskable 3y ago
  I think they're suggesting that young children--in their critical (mental) periods--can somehow turn gay or transgendered due to exposure/normalisation of gay and trans people. Except there's no science to back this up. All the scientific articles I've ever seen on the topic of gender and sexuality seem to indicate that the critical period for those attributes develop in the womb and not during childhood. The most likely reason for such deviations from what conservatives would consider, "normal sexuality" is endocrine-distrupting pollution. The kind that causes amphibians to change their sex, for example.
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    > The most likely reason for such deviations from what conservatives would consider, "normal sexuality" is endocrine-distrupting pollution. The kind that causes amphibians to change their sex, for example. Ironically, conservatives as a voting bloc will be the first to vote to reduce environmental protections and regulations attempting to reduce this (or any) pollution.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    > I think they're suggesting that young children--in their critical (mental) periods--can somehow turn gay or transgendered due to exposure/normalisation of gay and trans people. My personal belief is that the exposure/normalization is good because it helps people discover themselves. And I read that comment somewhat differently: exposure to these concepts might be controversial because parents have such different impressions of what is "right", so they might end up accidentally brainwashing their child. It already happens a lot, and people obviously don't want more of it.
  - itairall 3y ago
    Sexuality is so culturally determined though. I mean it seems rather obvious you will get more experimentation in sexuality without rigid taboos and religious dogma against experimentation. We pretend like people don't get turned on by their own hand.
    - ninjanomnom 3y ago
      There's so many people on earth that someone is going to be turned on from everything, but is getting turned on by your own hand actually common? I have never heard this one before.
theprincess 3y ago
I think you're right. On one side, you see adults who believe that sexuality and cross-gender identification are immutable, or at least practically immutable. Their goal is to expose e.g. heterosexual kids to the idea that some of their peers will be different from them so that they aren't shocked and scandalized by it later, then lash out unfairly as a result of prejudice against the unknown. On the other side, you see adults who equate deviations from acceptable expressions of sexuality and gender - you don't see many conservatives boycotting national brands over young boys at hooters or child beauty pageants featuring little girls - as being inherently obscene. They naturally want to protect children from what they see as obscene and abnormal. They both believe that they have children's best interests at heart. That said, based on all available data, it seems like sexuality and gender identification are mostly immutable and that truth will slowly win out in the end. For example, nearly every conservative has met a little boy who acted remarkably girlish since toddlerhood and grew up to be gay unsurprisingly. Seeing that process play out, then claiming that gayness is a social contagion requires cognitive dissonance. It's a part of the process of social change.... The last huge wave of homophobia that had legal consequences was in the 1970's and was led by a group called "Save the Children" -- it's all just the same dynamics repeating, except today it's more-so around broader gender norms, as opposed to a narrow focus on "men sleep with women". This video does a great job of laying it out through that sort of lens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6qUxa30SFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6qUxa30SFA
- krrrh 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bglazer 3y ago
    > Very few conservatives in 2023 are riled up by homosexuality. This is absolutely not the case at the populist grassroots level. There are regular panics and outpourings of hatred for pride events, books mentioning homosexuality are outright banned in schools, gay teachers are targeted for harassment and fired. My state just passed a law banning drag shows, which have been a part of gay culture for decades. Genuine question: do you live in a culturally conservative area? Do you have evangelical Christians in your social circles?
toss1 3y ago
Nah. That would be because one political party sustains itself by keeping it's voter base on a treadmill of fear and outrage, is moving strongly towards authoritarianism, and has a large contingent specifically intent on implementing a flavor of religious fascism called Dominionism (cf. "Seven Mountians Mandate"). These latest "topics in the culture wars" are simply that, the latest usable tools that can be used, along with exaggerating and flat-out lying about the topics, to maximize the outrage of their voter base to drive turnout. Meanwhile, it also helps the authoritarian causes to maximize the demonization of these same "other" minority groups, and trans groups are both easy and fresh targets. (Nevermind the facts: there are essentially zero cases of people in drag being any kind of threat to children, while there are literally thousands of cases of religious 'leaders' from the very same sects, sexually abusing children, with new cases every day.) Stop trying to normalize marginalizing people.
- HardlyCurious 3y ago
  "That would be because one political party sustains itself by keeping it's voter base on a treadmill of fear and outrage," Pot calling the kettle black right here
  - toss1 3y ago
    Right. Fear of a concerted effort to remove rights to everything from free speech, to reading books, to healthcare, to voting and actively destroying the independence of institutions whose independence is required to maintain democracy is exactly the same as fabricated fear ginned up with lies about minorities such as trans, Jews, and blacks. If you want to play at the pot-kettle game level, I'd point out that your statement is mere spouting of the standard line of the deluded herd. Not suitable for this forum. Please bring some facts next time.

sbelskie 3y ago

Can you expand on this? I find it hard to understand what similarities you see to what children today are being “exposed” to and Charles Manson drugging people with LSD and convincing them to kill other people.

riskable 3y ago
I think they're suggesting that young children--in their critical (mental) periods--can somehow turn gay or transgendered due to exposure/normalisation of gay and trans people. Except there's no science to back this up. All the scientific articles I've ever seen on the topic of gender and sexuality seem to indicate that the critical period for those attributes develop in the womb and not during childhood. The most likely reason for such deviations from what conservatives would consider, "normal sexuality" is endocrine-distrupting pollution. The kind that causes amphibians to change their sex, for example.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  > The most likely reason for such deviations from what conservatives would consider, "normal sexuality" is endocrine-distrupting pollution. The kind that causes amphibians to change their sex, for example. Ironically, conservatives as a voting bloc will be the first to vote to reduce environmental protections and regulations attempting to reduce this (or any) pollution.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > I think they're suggesting that young children--in their critical (mental) periods--can somehow turn gay or transgendered due to exposure/normalisation of gay and trans people. My personal belief is that the exposure/normalization is good because it helps people discover themselves. And I read that comment somewhat differently: exposure to these concepts might be controversial because parents have such different impressions of what is "right", so they might end up accidentally brainwashing their child. It already happens a lot, and people obviously don't want more of it.
- itairall 3y ago
  Sexuality is so culturally determined though. I mean it seems rather obvious you will get more experimentation in sexuality without rigid taboos and religious dogma against experimentation. We pretend like people don't get turned on by their own hand.
  - ninjanomnom 3y ago
    There's so many people on earth that someone is going to be turned on from everything, but is getting turned on by your own hand actually common? I have never heard this one before.

theprincess 3y ago

I think you're right. On one side, you see adults who believe that sexuality and cross-gender identification are immutable, or at least practically immutable. Their goal is to expose e.g. heterosexual kids to the idea that some of their peers will be different from them so that they aren't shocked and scandalized by it later, then lash out unfairly as a result of prejudice against the unknown. On the other side, you see adults who equate deviations from acceptable expressions of sexuality and gender - you don't see many conservatives boycotting national brands over young boys at hooters or child beauty pageants featuring little girls - as being inherently obscene. They naturally want to protect children from what they see as obscene and abnormal. They both believe that they have children's best interests at heart. That said, based on all available data, it seems like sexuality and gender identification are mostly immutable and that truth will slowly win out in the end. For example, nearly every conservative has met a little boy who acted remarkably girlish since toddlerhood and grew up to be gay unsurprisingly. Seeing that process play out, then claiming that gayness is a social contagion requires cognitive dissonance. It's a part of the process of social change.... The last huge wave of homophobia that had legal consequences was in the 1970's and was led by a group called "Save the Children" -- it's all just the same dynamics repeating, except today it's more-so around broader gender norms, as opposed to a narrow focus on "men sleep with women". This video does a great job of laying it out through that sort of lens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6qUxa30SFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6qUxa30SFA

krrrh 3y ago
[flagged]
- bglazer 3y ago
  > Very few conservatives in 2023 are riled up by homosexuality. This is absolutely not the case at the populist grassroots level. There are regular panics and outpourings of hatred for pride events, books mentioning homosexuality are outright banned in schools, gay teachers are targeted for harassment and fired. My state just passed a law banning drag shows, which have been a part of gay culture for decades. Genuine question: do you live in a culturally conservative area? Do you have evangelical Christians in your social circles?

toss1 3y ago

Nah. That would be because one political party sustains itself by keeping it's voter base on a treadmill of fear and outrage, is moving strongly towards authoritarianism, and has a large contingent specifically intent on implementing a flavor of religious fascism called Dominionism (cf. "Seven Mountians Mandate"). These latest "topics in the culture wars" are simply that, the latest usable tools that can be used, along with exaggerating and flat-out lying about the topics, to maximize the outrage of their voter base to drive turnout. Meanwhile, it also helps the authoritarian causes to maximize the demonization of these same "other" minority groups, and trans groups are both easy and fresh targets. (Nevermind the facts: there are essentially zero cases of people in drag being any kind of threat to children, while there are literally thousands of cases of religious 'leaders' from the very same sects, sexually abusing children, with new cases every day.) Stop trying to normalize marginalizing people.

HardlyCurious 3y ago
"That would be because one political party sustains itself by keeping it's voter base on a treadmill of fear and outrage," Pot calling the kettle black right here
- toss1 3y ago
  Right. Fear of a concerted effort to remove rights to everything from free speech, to reading books, to healthcare, to voting and actively destroying the independence of institutions whose independence is required to maintain democracy is exactly the same as fabricated fear ginned up with lies about minorities such as trans, Jews, and blacks. If you want to play at the pot-kettle game level, I'd point out that your statement is mere spouting of the standard line of the deluded herd. Not suitable for this forum. Please bring some facts next time.