4 ms·

What should someone do? I can't imagine for many people this isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last time this happens. Should we just default freeze

What should someone do? I can't imagine for many people this isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last time this happens. Should we just default freeze our credit? Is it time to finally get some ID monitoring service w/ insurance?

ceejayoz 3y ago
Give up. Assume your driver's license and SSN are compromised. Everyone's either is already or will be soon.
- jen20 3y ago
  "Giving up" is not really an option until it is illegal with substantial penalties to use these trivially discoverable reference numbers for anything.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    Exactly. In other words, is there anything you can do right now as an individual to protect yourself? Nope, not really. You'll have to get involved in policy, period.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- midasuni 3y ago
  My UK equivalent (NI number), and usual things like DoB, Address etc leaked a couple of weeks ago thanks to my company outsourcing to layers of companies who seem to have transferred PI by sending to pastebin or something. (Same moveit thing) My company just cries “it’s not our fault” when it clearly is. The larger problem here is that this bit of unchangale data can be used not just to open lines of credit but do things like take student loans out. Those loans are then automatically deducted from your salary and they won’t stop doing that even after you flag it. a private company can steal money from you after they cock up.
  - sys_64738 3y ago
    Aren't National Insurance numbers purely for state pension contributions? I don't think it's like what the USA SSN has been butchered as. When I was at college in the USA the SSN was used as your student ID and the prof printed them on attendance sheets each lecture and passed it around the room.
    - davchana 3y ago
      And then many of my employers use or used it as employee number (or last 4), and same passed an attendance sheet with my full name n last 4 of social around.
    - midasuni 3y ago
      It’s used for various government and tax purposes. You can seemingly use it to apply for state benefits and then have them paid elsewhere, then get threaded with being arrested for fraud. Same with student loans. One person on a radio phone in a couple of days ago had had both happen
- no_wizard 3y ago
  I do assume this, but I'm checking with the wider community here, how do you insulate the negative affects? Monitoring + insurance? We did the freeze, but is that sufficient enough? Seems like I'm gonna have to get some kind of insurance + monitoring in case something goes really south, no?
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  I can give up. Since so many third-parties continue to act as if these are "secret" (relying on them for "authentication") giving up does me no good. I guess I can try to avoid doing business with companies who insist on using these "secrets". Sometimes I don't have a choice, though. It would be wonderful to have ubiquitous PKI for every citizen in the United States. I don't trust private companies to do it. A large segment of the electorate would never trust the government to do it. (I like the idea of the USPS leveraging their tremendous physical presence and delivery infrastructure to do it, personally, but I think that would meet about the same level of opposition as the government doing it.) I guess we'll just continue with this ridiculous charade of "secret" numbers, the silly idea of "identity theft", and most of the consequences applying to the individual.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    This is the crux of the problem. IDs were never designed to be secret. In many countries it is required by law for hotels to take a copy of your passport. That’s fine, but what isn’t fine is when someone can use that copy to take out credit in your name. ID documents should only have power when produced in person. Having a copy of the data proves absolutely nothing and banks should not allow credit to be taken out with such weak verification, let alone make it the victims fault for having their “identity stolen”.
2023throwawayy 3y ago
You should have frozen your credit after the breeches of the credit agencies in years past.
bombcar 3y ago
The law needs to be changed so that loans can be unpaid with no penalties if there is no signed and notarized proof it was you. That'll fix it real fast.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  100%... The entire premise of "identity theft" is backwards. No one stole my identity, no they committed fraud against the bank. In any other context fraud costs are born by the victim of the fraud, i.e it should be the bank. Only in "identity theft" do we allow a 3rd party of the fraud to be liable for the damages. I am not sure how that even happened
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It's completely insane; though there are other similar things that can happen. But the bank, the fraudster, and/or the credit burro should be liable, not the unsuspecting innocent.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Give up. Assume your driver's license and SSN are compromised. Everyone's either is already or will be soon.

jen20 3y ago
"Giving up" is not really an option until it is illegal with substantial penalties to use these trivially discoverable reference numbers for anything.
- jrm4 3y ago
  Exactly. In other words, is there anything you can do right now as an individual to protect yourself? Nope, not really. You'll have to get involved in policy, period.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
midasuni 3y ago
My UK equivalent (NI number), and usual things like DoB, Address etc leaked a couple of weeks ago thanks to my company outsourcing to layers of companies who seem to have transferred PI by sending to pastebin or something. (Same moveit thing) My company just cries “it’s not our fault” when it clearly is. The larger problem here is that this bit of unchangale data can be used not just to open lines of credit but do things like take student loans out. Those loans are then automatically deducted from your salary and they won’t stop doing that even after you flag it. a private company can steal money from you after they cock up.
- sys_64738 3y ago
  Aren't National Insurance numbers purely for state pension contributions? I don't think it's like what the USA SSN has been butchered as. When I was at college in the USA the SSN was used as your student ID and the prof printed them on attendance sheets each lecture and passed it around the room.
  - davchana 3y ago
    And then many of my employers use or used it as employee number (or last 4), and same passed an attendance sheet with my full name n last 4 of social around.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    It’s used for various government and tax purposes. You can seemingly use it to apply for state benefits and then have them paid elsewhere, then get threaded with being arrested for fraud. Same with student loans. One person on a radio phone in a couple of days ago had had both happen
no_wizard 3y ago
I do assume this, but I'm checking with the wider community here, how do you insulate the negative affects? Monitoring + insurance? We did the freeze, but is that sufficient enough? Seems like I'm gonna have to get some kind of insurance + monitoring in case something goes really south, no?
EvanAnderson 3y ago
I can give up. Since so many third-parties continue to act as if these are "secret" (relying on them for "authentication") giving up does me no good. I guess I can try to avoid doing business with companies who insist on using these "secrets". Sometimes I don't have a choice, though. It would be wonderful to have ubiquitous PKI for every citizen in the United States. I don't trust private companies to do it. A large segment of the electorate would never trust the government to do it. (I like the idea of the USPS leveraging their tremendous physical presence and delivery infrastructure to do it, personally, but I think that would meet about the same level of opposition as the government doing it.) I guess we'll just continue with this ridiculous charade of "secret" numbers, the silly idea of "identity theft", and most of the consequences applying to the individual.
- shortcake27 3y ago
  This is the crux of the problem. IDs were never designed to be secret. In many countries it is required by law for hotels to take a copy of your passport. That’s fine, but what isn’t fine is when someone can use that copy to take out credit in your name. ID documents should only have power when produced in person. Having a copy of the data proves absolutely nothing and banks should not allow credit to be taken out with such weak verification, let alone make it the victims fault for having their “identity stolen”.

2023throwawayy 3y ago

You should have frozen your credit after the breeches of the credit agencies in years past.

bombcar 3y ago

The law needs to be changed so that loans can be unpaid with no penalties if there is no signed and notarized proof it was you. That'll fix it real fast.

phpisthebest 3y ago
100%... The entire premise of "identity theft" is backwards. No one stole my identity, no they committed fraud against the bank. In any other context fraud costs are born by the victim of the fraud, i.e it should be the bank. Only in "identity theft" do we allow a 3rd party of the fraud to be liable for the damages. I am not sure how that even happened
- bombcar 3y ago
  It's completely insane; though there are other similar things that can happen. But the bank, the fraudster, and/or the credit burro should be liable, not the unsuspecting innocent.