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> Shu also tells me that RIF was paying a “sizable revenue share” to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong’s tenure as CEO. Shu says he says in

> Shu also tells me that RIF was paying a “sizable revenue share” to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong’s tenure as CEO. Shu says he says initiated the talks with Reddit to create the agreement, which allowed for the licensed use of Reddit’s trademarks. (At the time, the app was called “reddit is fun.”) Shu says Reddit terminated the agreement in 2016 — which was the year after Huffman took over as CEO. So, one of the app developers had a pre-existing agreement with reddit, to pay them money, well before this mess (yes, for the trademark, but still), and spez ripped up the agreement? What on earth? Also, spez, how hard is it to just... you know, not lie? Clearly there was a communication line.

buildbot 3y ago
Yeah that part is really wild - there were making money already off a 3rd party app, then decided to NOT take their money in 2016, then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the deal was for) for what, 7 years?! How is that not gross incompetence? Minority shareholder lawsuit territory? It's really clear that spez wants terminate any 3rd party clients whatsoever, I assume at this point any talk of app devs actually working with them is also a lie, as is the moderator tools and accessibility tools getting free API access. Finally, the initial email the RIF received is so egregious - IMMEDIATE COMPLIANCE REQUIRED, when they hadn't even changed their actual terms yet. Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! If they had done _nothing_ up to this point, I probably would have bought some, not that I am anyone of note, but I assume any serious fund would steer clear too at this point.
- pityJuke 3y ago
  > then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the deal was for) I don't think that's true - "Reddit is Fun" rebranded to "rif is fun for reddit".
  - buildbot 3y ago
    Doesn't that still use the trademark reddit?
    - pityJuke 3y ago
      The standard is that 3rd party apps must be in the format: "X for reddit". So, Reddit Sync became Sync for reddit, and Reddit News became Relay for reddit.
      - buildbot 3y ago
        Ah I see, that makes sense I guess
    - duskwuff 3y ago
      It's generally accepted that using trademarks in this sort of descriptive fashion is non-infringing, so long as it's necessary to describe the purpose of the product and doesn't imply that the product is produced or endorsed by the trademark holder.
- mcculley 3y ago
  > Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! The same kinds of investors who did no diligence on FTX. I am certain there is dumb money out there.
  - alwayslikethis 3y ago
    The good thing is the era of cheap money has already ended, and market forces eliminate these investors over time as they lose money.
  - FormerBandmate 3y ago
    The Sequoia FTX puff piece will never get old. It’s deleted now but thank God for the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20221109025610/https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/sam-bankman-fried-spotlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221109025610/https://www.sequo...
  - michaelcampbell 3y ago
    Any kind that thinks they can 2, 3, 5, 10x their investment. The vehicle in which to do that is of zero consequence.
- protastus 3y ago
  > Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! Moreover, what will be the short interest should this company go public? I become more confident with every week that the CEO is holding back the company. And so is the board by allowing executive decisions and objectively false statements based on ego.
star-glider 3y ago
That last point is, IMHO, the real problem. It's pretty reasonable to want to charge for the API, but saying "we just want a fair price" and setting a price that's clearly meant just to kill them off is dishonest. Just say you're turning off API access. And then there's the lying about Christian (the Apollo guy), where Huffman/spez just straight-up lied. We know that because Christian posted a call recording. Now he's lying about the RIF situation. He goes in and edits _other users' comments_ when he feels like it seemingly for no reason. The takeaway for me at least is that the guy is just a liar, and investing a lot of time and energy (either as a contributor, developer, or mod) into a company run by a flagrantly dishonest bad actor is a bad idea.
Llamamoe 3y ago
The last few years are starting to feel like genuine "late stage capitalism", with corporations realising they can just lie, manipulate, and outright work against their customers with impunity if squeezes one more cent on the dollar. Once you're big enough, without a coordinated media campaign the lashback and outrage rarely reach the critical mass it takes to make harmful decisions unprofitable.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > outright work against their customers with impunity if squeezes one more cent on the dollar. If you apply this logic to Reddit, have they added value, or lost it? It’s hard to see how this fiasco has been of benefit to them.
mdekkers 3y ago
Every time I see Huffman quoted it strikes me how much his communication patterns mirror those of Trump

buildbot 3y ago

Yeah that part is really wild - there were making money already off a 3rd party app, then decided to NOT take their money in 2016, then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the deal was for) for what, 7 years?! How is that not gross incompetence? Minority shareholder lawsuit territory? It's really clear that spez wants terminate any 3rd party clients whatsoever, I assume at this point any talk of app devs actually working with them is also a lie, as is the moderator tools and accessibility tools getting free API access. Finally, the initial email the RIF received is so egregious - IMMEDIATE COMPLIANCE REQUIRED, when they hadn't even changed their actual terms yet. Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! If they had done _nothing_ up to this point, I probably would have bought some, not that I am anyone of note, but I assume any serious fund would steer clear too at this point.

pityJuke 3y ago
> then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the deal was for) I don't think that's true - "Reddit is Fun" rebranded to "rif is fun for reddit".
- buildbot 3y ago
  Doesn't that still use the trademark reddit?
  - pityJuke 3y ago
    The standard is that 3rd party apps must be in the format: "X for reddit". So, Reddit Sync became Sync for reddit, and Reddit News became Relay for reddit.
    - buildbot 3y ago
      Ah I see, that makes sense I guess
  - duskwuff 3y ago
    It's generally accepted that using trademarks in this sort of descriptive fashion is non-infringing, so long as it's necessary to describe the purpose of the product and doesn't imply that the product is produced or endorsed by the trademark holder.
mcculley 3y ago
> Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! The same kinds of investors who did no diligence on FTX. I am certain there is dumb money out there.
- alwayslikethis 3y ago
  The good thing is the era of cheap money has already ended, and market forces eliminate these investors over time as they lose money.
- FormerBandmate 3y ago
  The Sequoia FTX puff piece will never get old. It’s deleted now but thank God for the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20221109025610/https://www.sequoiacap.com/article/sam-bankman-fried-spotlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221109025610/https://www.sequo...
- michaelcampbell 3y ago
  Any kind that thinks they can 2, 3, 5, 10x their investment. The vehicle in which to do that is of zero consequence.
protastus 3y ago
> Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! Moreover, what will be the short interest should this company go public? I become more confident with every week that the CEO is holding back the company. And so is the board by allowing executive decisions and objectively false statements based on ego.

star-glider 3y ago

That last point is, IMHO, the real problem. It's pretty reasonable to want to charge for the API, but saying "we just want a fair price" and setting a price that's clearly meant just to kill them off is dishonest. Just say you're turning off API access. And then there's the lying about Christian (the Apollo guy), where Huffman/spez just straight-up lied. We know that because Christian posted a call recording. Now he's lying about the RIF situation. He goes in and edits _other users' comments_ when he feels like it seemingly for no reason. The takeaway for me at least is that the guy is just a liar, and investing a lot of time and energy (either as a contributor, developer, or mod) into a company run by a flagrantly dishonest bad actor is a bad idea.

Llamamoe 3y ago

The last few years are starting to feel like genuine "late stage capitalism", with corporations realising they can just lie, manipulate, and outright work against their customers with impunity if squeezes one more cent on the dollar. Once you're big enough, without a coordinated media campaign the lashback and outrage rarely reach the critical mass it takes to make harmful decisions unprofitable.

lostlogin 3y ago
> outright work against their customers with impunity if squeezes one more cent on the dollar. If you apply this logic to Reddit, have they added value, or lost it? It’s hard to see how this fiasco has been of benefit to them.

mdekkers 3y ago

Every time I see Huffman quoted it strikes me how much his communication patterns mirror those of Trump