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Well, it's hard to say that other companies didn't rip off the "idea" of the iPhone. After all, all the hardware had been available for a number of years, inclu

by gnaffle 15y ago

Well, it's hard to say that other companies didn't rip off the "idea" of the iPhone. After all, all the hardware had been available for a number of years, including displays, CPUs, GPUs, capacitive touchscreens, batteries etc. Someone else could easily have come along with a multitouch phone two years earlier, but nobody did. Of course, the "idea" of the iPhone wasn't new either, but Apple was the first to make the idea into a working, usable product.

oconnore 15y ago
You just contradicted yourself: "it's hard to say that other companies didn't rip off the 'idea' of the iPhone." and "Of course, the 'idea' of the iPhone wasn't new either". If the idea wasn't new, then other companies weren't ripping off the iPhone's idea. I'm not attempting to detract from the fact that Apple executed on the iPhone almost perfectly. Realizing that the market was ready, and then providing a product that delivers on that analysis is what Jobs should be known for, not this notion that he invented multitouch devices.
- gnaffle 15y ago
  Maybe I should have written that they ripped off Apples _implementation_ of the idea. Or maybe they were just "inspired". The right question to ask is this: Would multiple capacitive multitouch phones similar to the iPhone have been introduced in 2007 / 2008 if the iPhone had never launched? Some people seem to think so, but I see no evidence that other companies were working on similar technology / user interfaces at the time, and plenty of evidence that they were caught off guard.
gst 15y ago
There's a simple reason why Apple was often the first one to put something into a product: They could afford to sell high-end products for a high price and know that they still have lots of users who buy their stuff. Most of the other companies had prototypes using those technologies available, but they didn't build products out of them because (at this point) they would have been too expensive for their target audience. And even if those other companies built a product before Apple, Apple would still claim that it was first: Two examples: (1) LG Prada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada) was there before the iPhone, yet (AFAIK) Apple claims that basically all the touchscreen phones are a copy of the iPhone. And (2) Netbooks and Subnotebooks have been on the market for nearly a decade now - I've used Thinkpad X-series laptops for years now (which weight about as much as a Macbook Air). Still, as soon as a company announes a new Subnotebook now someone will claim that it is a copy of the Macbook Air.
- gnaffle 15y ago
  Sorry, but that's just wrong. Most other computer or consumer electronics companies have high-end lines with prices comparable to Apples products. Companies like RIM and Nokia had pretty nice margins on their high-end phones. The main problem was simply that they had no incentive to innovate in that direction until competition showed up in the form of the iPhone. (And I'm not saying Apple is special here, I think they would probably have been in the same position if they had continued selling the Newton and tried making an iNewtonPhone out of it). AFAIK, Apple claims various touch-related inventions through their patents (some of which are quite stupid, which is another story). I've never heard them saying "we invented touchscreen phones". Apple never claimed to have invented subnotebooks either. But you would be right if you looked at many of the new "ultrabooks" and claimed that they have borrowed many design details from the Air (as opposed to, say, copying the form factor of the X-series or netbooks).
- greedo 15y ago
  Your example of the Prada disproves your point. The Prada sold unlocked for roughly $775. Hardly a cheap phone. The Sony/Ericsson P990 also sold for $700. So the iPhone was not sold at a significantly higher price than its competition. So, Apple is doomed when faced by your criticism. Either they sell the stuff with new technology at a high price because of their cult following, or they're really not introducing something new. That's a pretty effective attack, since you can basically switch both tactics interchangeably regardless of any actual validity.
arjn 15y ago
Maybe you haven't heard of the LG Prada. Design was public in September 2006, several months before the first iPhone was released. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada
Too 15y ago
Sonyericsson p800, released 2002, 5 years(!) before the iphone. Has a touchscreen covering the whole surface of the phone. You could even stretch it as far as R380, disregard that it's black and white and has no apps and you basically have the iphone form factor. The iphone might be the first phone that put together all the elements in a really good way and raised the bar for UX on a phone but they certainly did not invent neighter smartphones, touchscreen-phones or phones with apps.

by gnaffle 15y ago

oconnore 15y ago

You just contradicted yourself: "it's hard to say that other companies didn't rip off the 'idea' of the iPhone." and "Of course, the 'idea' of the iPhone wasn't new either". If the idea wasn't new, then other companies weren't ripping off the iPhone's idea. I'm not attempting to detract from the fact that Apple executed on the iPhone almost perfectly. Realizing that the market was ready, and then providing a product that delivers on that analysis is what Jobs should be known for, not this notion that he invented multitouch devices.

gnaffle 15y ago
Maybe I should have written that they ripped off Apples _implementation_ of the idea. Or maybe they were just "inspired". The right question to ask is this: Would multiple capacitive multitouch phones similar to the iPhone have been introduced in 2007 / 2008 if the iPhone had never launched? Some people seem to think so, but I see no evidence that other companies were working on similar technology / user interfaces at the time, and plenty of evidence that they were caught off guard.

gst 15y ago

There's a simple reason why Apple was often the first one to put something into a product: They could afford to sell high-end products for a high price and know that they still have lots of users who buy their stuff. Most of the other companies had prototypes using those technologies available, but they didn't build products out of them because (at this point) they would have been too expensive for their target audience. And even if those other companies built a product before Apple, Apple would still claim that it was first: Two examples: (1) LG Prada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada) was there before the iPhone, yet (AFAIK) Apple claims that basically all the touchscreen phones are a copy of the iPhone. And (2) Netbooks and Subnotebooks have been on the market for nearly a decade now - I've used Thinkpad X-series laptops for years now (which weight about as much as a Macbook Air). Still, as soon as a company announes a new Subnotebook now someone will claim that it is a copy of the Macbook Air.

gnaffle 15y ago
Sorry, but that's just wrong. Most other computer or consumer electronics companies have high-end lines with prices comparable to Apples products. Companies like RIM and Nokia had pretty nice margins on their high-end phones. The main problem was simply that they had no incentive to innovate in that direction until competition showed up in the form of the iPhone. (And I'm not saying Apple is special here, I think they would probably have been in the same position if they had continued selling the Newton and tried making an iNewtonPhone out of it). AFAIK, Apple claims various touch-related inventions through their patents (some of which are quite stupid, which is another story). I've never heard them saying "we invented touchscreen phones". Apple never claimed to have invented subnotebooks either. But you would be right if you looked at many of the new "ultrabooks" and claimed that they have borrowed many design details from the Air (as opposed to, say, copying the form factor of the X-series or netbooks).
greedo 15y ago
Your example of the Prada disproves your point. The Prada sold unlocked for roughly $775. Hardly a cheap phone. The Sony/Ericsson P990 also sold for $700. So the iPhone was not sold at a significantly higher price than its competition. So, Apple is doomed when faced by your criticism. Either they sell the stuff with new technology at a high price because of their cult following, or they're really not introducing something new. That's a pretty effective attack, since you can basically switch both tactics interchangeably regardless of any actual validity.

arjn 15y ago

Maybe you haven't heard of the LG Prada. Design was public in September 2006, several months before the first iPhone was released. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada

Too 15y ago

Sonyericsson p800, released 2002, 5 years(!) before the iphone. Has a touchscreen covering the whole surface of the phone. You could even stretch it as far as R380, disregard that it's black and white and has no apps and you basically have the iphone form factor. The iphone might be the first phone that put together all the elements in a really good way and raised the bar for UX on a phone but they certainly did not invent neighter smartphones, touchscreen-phones or phones with apps.