7 ms·

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes i

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

dtx1 3y ago
solved see galaxy s5
- wesapien 3y ago
  I asked Bard and Samsung started making IP57 phones during the Galaxy S4 era with its "Active" brand.
blowski 3y ago
Of all the incredible technology in a modern smartphone, it’s too hard to make replaceable batteries?
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
But really waterproofing the phone doesn't require gluing everything together to within an inch of its life, just a gasket and a few screws. Yes it will add $5 or something to the cost of a phone, totally worth it, and will improve repairability in general to boot.
- xenadu02 3y ago
  You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.
  - munk-a 3y ago
    Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing is an excuse used to limit our ability to repair and maintain our devices and maybe because somebody didn't like the appearance of a screw face or screw cover on one side of the device.
    - brookst 3y ago
      How does the case size of a watch compare to the movement size? Are you prepared to have a similar ratio for your phone? Basically the phones we have now with a permanent, very durable waterproof case?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - postalrat 3y ago
        Why are you comparing ratios of office vs wristwatches? You should be comparing phones with wall clocks. Those things are mostly empty.
      - simondotau 3y ago
        This is precisely the point. It’s easy to make a durable case if it can be more than twice the size of the components it’s encasing.
    - petsfed 3y ago
      Do most watches have ports that are designed for thousands of uses? My smart watch sure does. But of all the possible avenues by which its waterproofness might fail, that connector is #1. I'm pretty sure its custom, as the cable has actual pogo pins to connect. Strictly from a product design and especially hardware design standpoint, I get the resistance to easy replacement of certain parts. Designing for a replaceable battery means designing your seal to withstand at least twice as many battery replacements as the law requires, or you make sure you have enough replacement seals stockpiled to cover the number that will be replaced, or you use a a commodity seal (think an O-ring). Apple eventually made ~86 million iPhone 8 and 8 plus. Let's say that's representative of any given model of phone. How many millions (billions?) of seals is that? How much does that cost to store? To distribute? How much does that affect the cost of the phone? I am fully behind right-to-repair. I won't work for companies that have lobbied against it (and as an embedded hardware and firmware guy, that's significant). But there is a measurable, monetary cost to designing things to be repaired. Either we accept that only the richest n% of e.g. phone manufacturers can afford to stay in business, we as the consumer accept lower performance at the same price point, or both. All of that said, my point regarding connectors with finite cycle lifespans is relevant. These physical devices themselves have a lifespan. What is the point of replacing a battery when the charging port, headphone jack, physical buttons, touch screen, etc are spec'd to fail well before the average battery does? What about if you have the same iPhone 8 soldering problem, where the phone can't actually survive being put in the back pocket of a decently tight pair of pants? How does government regulation regarding batteries reverse the trend of people buying cheap things because they cost less?
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    the easiest way is to just separately encapsulate all parts that need to be removable (i.e. the battery + wireless charging coil in one piece and the rest of the phone in the other), and only have the connectors as the exposed pieces. A gasket around those and contacts far enough away from each other for good measure and you're good to go. Plus the Samsung Active line never needed to go to these extremes to churn out perfectly fine waterproof phones at slightly higher than average prices. And they weren't the only ones with these sort of offerings.
    - xenadu02 3y ago
      That means double the casing which takes up space and adds weight. I never claimed it was impossible. I'm only pointing out there are far more severe design constraints than a lot of people even understand, yet they confidently proclaim it is both a simple matter of trivial engineering and completely free of consequences.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    Controlling water in machines is not new, neither is phone design. It's been done a million ways and all of those ways have certain trade offs. It's just another design challenge and the flipside of your comment is a suggestion that there isn't some person other than me that is up to the challenge. Customers can make their own judgements about looks and size versus (replaceable battery) functionality as they always have. The fact is gluing is simpler and cheaper but most importantly it reduces the repairability of phones by third parties. Quite often trying to repair a phone will cause it to be destroyed, making replacing a battery more risky and difficult. Companies would love not to have to use glue, but <design excuse>! Nothing at all to do with built-in obsolescence.
    - kgantchev 3y ago
      I'm sure many people want a repairable smartphone and a replaceable battery. Of course, there are many that don't. I don't understand how it make sense to force those people, that don't want a repairable phone and a replaceable battery, to get such a smartphone.
      - evilos 3y ago
        Because the cost of the waste these throw-away phones generate isn't priced in. There is a societal cost that isn't being paid by the firm or the consumer. Honestly, it probably only adds a few bucks to the BOM and the consumer who doesn't care about repairability still likely comes out better off in the long run because their phone lasts them longer and/or resells for more because it isn't junk after 3 years.
        kaba0 3y ago
        Iphones are arguably not too repairable, yet they absolutely dominate the whole market in their lifetimes - often having 2-3 owners.
        evilos 3y ago
        Yeah iphones were premium/valuable enough that people would go through the trouble to repair them even if they had to deal with some glue. With android phones the resale value/demand wasn't there (also due in part to bad software support lifetimes which would also need to be addressed) so they'd just get tossed/shelved after 2 to 3 years even if they were perfectly functional.
  - isidor3 3y ago
    Users of cars pretty routinely replace seals that are under a lot more extreme enviroments and abuse than a phone without issue. All of the ones I've dealt with pretty much are "just a gasket and a few screws" Sure, there needs to be some design process to get there, but let's not pretend that doing this would be some unheard of technological advancement.
    - xenadu02 3y ago
      Cars are much larger and their seals are much larger. They consequently have much more play and far larger tolerances. If you scaled the forces and subjected the car to the equivalent of dropping a phone on the floor it would be totaled instantly... forget about maintaining waterproofing. Thus I stand by my original statement: people making claims like "just a gasket and some screws" have never designed a product under similar constraints and are making bad assumptions or straight-up Dunning-Kruger errors left and right.
saxonww 3y ago
I wonder about this. First, it seems like you could just make the phone part waterproof and if they dunk it, they have to replace the battery. I have ruined a phone by putting it through the wash, and I would have been very happy to just replace the battery instead of chucking the phone. Beyond that, I wonder what the reality is for waterproofing needs. Are people taking smartphones diving? IP65 means it's resistant to 'spray' - like rain, not a firehose - and it seems like a battery compartment with a tight-fitting cover would be more than enough for this. IP68 doesn't apparently mandate a depth rating but recent iPhones are tested to 6 meters for 30 minutes. That's more water pressure than 99% of those iPhones are ever going to see. I don't personally think the non-replaceable battery has anything to do with IP rating, it's because manufacturers want soft-sided batteries with more delicate terminal connections, for volume/capacity reasons.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Most waterproof norms are only valid for freshwater. Most usb/lightning ports rust after being subjected to salted water and you end up not being able to charge your device anymore.
  - brookst 3y ago
    Really? I've taken many an iPhone snorkling in the ocean, just in zipped pocket, and they have all been fine.
    - aembleton 3y ago
      That's really impressive. I destroyed a Sony phone a few years ago just going for a short swim in the sea.
  - tempestn 3y ago
    This can be largely mitigated by rinsing/soaking the device in fresh water to dissolve the salt.
snuxoll 3y ago
My GoPro's are waterproof yet they have removable batteries. It's not impossible, but it does mean they have to be every so slightly thicker.
- timeon 3y ago
  > so slightly thicker. Maybe if they decrease size of display, it wouldn't be that bulky. And we would finally get a phone again that is not wannabe tablet.
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    > Maybe if they decrease size of display But how are you gonna show all the ads, dark patterns and newsletter signup forms? We can't afford to miss out on all that growth and engagement.
    - chongli 3y ago
      Small screen size doesn’t stop them. They just block the entire screen with that junk!
- megablast 3y ago
  Waterproof with an external case.
  - snuxoll 3y ago
    No? My Hero 10 and 11 are both waterproof on their own up to 10m, as long as I use the included battery door (can’t use the optional doors that allow direct access to the USB port, or the media mod). There is a dive housing that can handle up to 60m depth, but that’s a special case.
JohnFen 3y ago
> This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries! Except it doesn't. The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack. What it does is add a few dollars onto the BOM.
- phan 3y ago
  You must be joking if you think its just a BOM adjustment and a small cost... way to oversimplify the actual implementation
  - freeone3000 3y ago
    There was a beautiful period where phones had a headphone jack and a USB-C connector and a replaceable battery and IP67 water resistance.
    - cout 3y ago
      Which phone was that?
      - bmicraft 3y ago
        Galaxy S5 did it just fine
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Only if you kept the flap on the headphone jack… https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-dont-try-this-with-your-iphone/#:~:text=It's%20important%20to%20remember%20that,or%20are%20in%20extreme%20environments https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d....
        Jochim 3y ago
        According to the article, the flap was to protect the USB port. The other internals were protected by an internal gasket on the removable back cover.
pjmlp 3y ago
As I keep mentioning, Nokia has been building hardened phones for construction workers, with replacement batteries, for ages, all the way back to their feature phones.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes, I am sure people want to carry around ruggedized phones like it’s 2005. I programmed them working in field services.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    That doesn't invalidate their existence.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Did you actually use one of those ruggedized phones that were used by field service workers?
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        In a previous life I worked for Nokia...
        scarface_74 3y ago
        They aren’t exactly things you carry around in your pocket. http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobile-computer-two-os-options-android-windows-intermec-cn51/ http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobil...
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Better search more appropriate examples, all the way back to first models. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210 They can even fit into a pocket!
timeon 3y ago
> users want them to be waterproof They also want displays not to crack. That is why lot of them are buying protective cases. Are not sealed up phones overrate in this context?
ktosobcy 3y ago
I don't. I just want it splash resistant - it's more than enough. just because there is a promile of morons that can't handle the phone doesn't mean that a lots of users should be prohibited from easily changing the battery... because of that lots of devices end up on landslide because users can't get enough charge I fit anymore... I loved lumia devices - easily openable back to replace battery, nice materials (rubbery polycarbonate?) that offered nice grip. Having PC displays instead of glass would be awesome - no need for extra protective case because the shatter woild be a tning od the past. At the worst, a scratch resistant screen protector, which we all already put in the devices either way to help avoid screen cracks..
- astrange 3y ago
  If the battery was easier to replace, the phones would still end up unusable either because the storage would wear out, the cell modem would become obsolete, the display would get burnin, or someone would drop it and crack the screen.
  - ktosobcy 3y ago
    I'm sorry but what? I replaced my previous mobile (OnePlus3) because of the battery - after about 4-5 years it became quite difficult to get through the day on single charge, and in the world where everything is getting more "electronic" (tickets!) it became a problem. Yes, id didn't have newest 5G, but guess what - my new phone has it yet I don't have coverage. Storage could wear out but are you really doing load IO test on it? screen burnin/crack... maybe if someone is glued to the phone "24/7" and doesn't take care of the device... but as I said - using good policarbon materials (including for screen!) would get rid of this problem mostly...
    - astrange 3y ago
      That's a sample of one but we're talking about millions in different countries here and a bit longer timescale than here. I don't think phones could last say 10 years with battery swaps and nothing else.
oblio 3y ago
This is just ridiculous. See Jerry Rig Everything. He even says that there are solutions for this even for glued-up phones, manufacturers just don't want to implement them because they're for sure against battery replacements. It's not like glue is some sort of magic substance.
crabbone 3y ago
What a bunch of crock. I have this new Nokia phone with a replaceable battery. It came with the pin you can use to open it (probably costs a few cents to manufacture, but if I had plenty of time to spare, I could've made one with a sturdy piece of plastic and sandpaper). The "mechanism" that keeps the back panel is just a piece of rubber, probably the same kind you find on hermetically sealing food containers. Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). And even if you really, really wanted that, you could like spend 5-10 Euro on a water-proof case.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Si few people want their phone to be protected from water?
- megablast 3y ago
  > Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it?
  - aceazzameen 3y ago
    Back when phones still had removable batteries, I had them rained on, spilled on, and even dropped one in the toilet. I then submerged that one in a bowl of rubbing alcohol for several minutes. In all those instances, I popped the battery out and let it dry. I've never had a phone destroyed by water. Worst case was buy a new battery! Back then non-waterproof phones without removable batteries also existed. I'm sure they succumbed to water much more easily. I'd take a removeable battery over almost every modern feature on phones today.
  - DJHenk 3y ago
    > This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it? If rain destroys your phone that is just plain incompetence from the design department. Or rather, they were not incompetent, but other forces made sure they were not paying much attention to water resistance. My wettest experience with a smartphone was when I got surprised by heavy rain when walking to the hair dresser. I arrived soaking wet. Got the phone (a HTC Desire Z) out of my pocket, water was running out of it. I opened the battery lid, the hairdresser blew with the hairdryer for a couple of minutes and all was fine.
pishpash 3y ago
So is it waterproof capability or planned obsolescence? You all make it sound nefarious when it is just PM's doing what PM's do.
kaba0 3y ago
I want replaceable batteries in that I want to replace them like 2-3 years after purchase. Which is already possible for a negligible price. You really shouldn’t want to replace batteries on the fly in general — it makes stealing easier (modern phones can’t be powered off easily without authorization) so you may find it before it loses power, waterproofing suffers, etc.
pantalaimon 3y ago
Of all my phones that broke, none was due to fluid but all due to a cracked screen. Yet I don’t see manufacturers add better screen protection, quite the opposite in fact. So phone cases/bumpers it is for me now.

dtx1 3y ago

solved see galaxy s5

wesapien 3y ago
I asked Bard and Samsung started making IP57 phones during the Galaxy S4 era with its "Active" brand.

blowski 3y ago

Of all the incredible technology in a modern smartphone, it’s too hard to make replaceable batteries?

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

But really waterproofing the phone doesn't require gluing everything together to within an inch of its life, just a gasket and a few screws. Yes it will add $5 or something to the cost of a phone, totally worth it, and will improve repairability in general to boot.

xenadu02 3y ago
You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.
- munk-a 3y ago
  Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing is an excuse used to limit our ability to repair and maintain our devices and maybe because somebody didn't like the appearance of a screw face or screw cover on one side of the device.
  - brookst 3y ago
    How does the case size of a watch compare to the movement size? Are you prepared to have a similar ratio for your phone? Basically the phones we have now with a permanent, very durable waterproof case?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - postalrat 3y ago
      Why are you comparing ratios of office vs wristwatches? You should be comparing phones with wall clocks. Those things are mostly empty.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      This is precisely the point. It’s easy to make a durable case if it can be more than twice the size of the components it’s encasing.
  - petsfed 3y ago
    Do most watches have ports that are designed for thousands of uses? My smart watch sure does. But of all the possible avenues by which its waterproofness might fail, that connector is #1. I'm pretty sure its custom, as the cable has actual pogo pins to connect. Strictly from a product design and especially hardware design standpoint, I get the resistance to easy replacement of certain parts. Designing for a replaceable battery means designing your seal to withstand at least twice as many battery replacements as the law requires, or you make sure you have enough replacement seals stockpiled to cover the number that will be replaced, or you use a a commodity seal (think an O-ring). Apple eventually made ~86 million iPhone 8 and 8 plus. Let's say that's representative of any given model of phone. How many millions (billions?) of seals is that? How much does that cost to store? To distribute? How much does that affect the cost of the phone? I am fully behind right-to-repair. I won't work for companies that have lobbied against it (and as an embedded hardware and firmware guy, that's significant). But there is a measurable, monetary cost to designing things to be repaired. Either we accept that only the richest n% of e.g. phone manufacturers can afford to stay in business, we as the consumer accept lower performance at the same price point, or both. All of that said, my point regarding connectors with finite cycle lifespans is relevant. These physical devices themselves have a lifespan. What is the point of replacing a battery when the charging port, headphone jack, physical buttons, touch screen, etc are spec'd to fail well before the average battery does? What about if you have the same iPhone 8 soldering problem, where the phone can't actually survive being put in the back pocket of a decently tight pair of pants? How does government regulation regarding batteries reverse the trend of people buying cheap things because they cost less?
- moffkalast 3y ago
  the easiest way is to just separately encapsulate all parts that need to be removable (i.e. the battery + wireless charging coil in one piece and the rest of the phone in the other), and only have the connectors as the exposed pieces. A gasket around those and contacts far enough away from each other for good measure and you're good to go. Plus the Samsung Active line never needed to go to these extremes to churn out perfectly fine waterproof phones at slightly higher than average prices. And they weren't the only ones with these sort of offerings.
  - xenadu02 3y ago
    That means double the casing which takes up space and adds weight. I never claimed it was impossible. I'm only pointing out there are far more severe design constraints than a lot of people even understand, yet they confidently proclaim it is both a simple matter of trivial engineering and completely free of consequences.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  Controlling water in machines is not new, neither is phone design. It's been done a million ways and all of those ways have certain trade offs. It's just another design challenge and the flipside of your comment is a suggestion that there isn't some person other than me that is up to the challenge. Customers can make their own judgements about looks and size versus (replaceable battery) functionality as they always have. The fact is gluing is simpler and cheaper but most importantly it reduces the repairability of phones by third parties. Quite often trying to repair a phone will cause it to be destroyed, making replacing a battery more risky and difficult. Companies would love not to have to use glue, but <design excuse>! Nothing at all to do with built-in obsolescence.
  - kgantchev 3y ago
    I'm sure many people want a repairable smartphone and a replaceable battery. Of course, there are many that don't. I don't understand how it make sense to force those people, that don't want a repairable phone and a replaceable battery, to get such a smartphone.
    - evilos 3y ago
      Because the cost of the waste these throw-away phones generate isn't priced in. There is a societal cost that isn't being paid by the firm or the consumer. Honestly, it probably only adds a few bucks to the BOM and the consumer who doesn't care about repairability still likely comes out better off in the long run because their phone lasts them longer and/or resells for more because it isn't junk after 3 years.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        Iphones are arguably not too repairable, yet they absolutely dominate the whole market in their lifetimes - often having 2-3 owners.
        evilos 3y ago
        Yeah iphones were premium/valuable enough that people would go through the trouble to repair them even if they had to deal with some glue. With android phones the resale value/demand wasn't there (also due in part to bad software support lifetimes which would also need to be addressed) so they'd just get tossed/shelved after 2 to 3 years even if they were perfectly functional.
- isidor3 3y ago
  Users of cars pretty routinely replace seals that are under a lot more extreme enviroments and abuse than a phone without issue. All of the ones I've dealt with pretty much are "just a gasket and a few screws" Sure, there needs to be some design process to get there, but let's not pretend that doing this would be some unheard of technological advancement.
  - xenadu02 3y ago
    Cars are much larger and their seals are much larger. They consequently have much more play and far larger tolerances. If you scaled the forces and subjected the car to the equivalent of dropping a phone on the floor it would be totaled instantly... forget about maintaining waterproofing. Thus I stand by my original statement: people making claims like "just a gasket and some screws" have never designed a product under similar constraints and are making bad assumptions or straight-up Dunning-Kruger errors left and right.

saxonww 3y ago

I wonder about this. First, it seems like you could just make the phone part waterproof and if they dunk it, they have to replace the battery. I have ruined a phone by putting it through the wash, and I would have been very happy to just replace the battery instead of chucking the phone. Beyond that, I wonder what the reality is for waterproofing needs. Are people taking smartphones diving? IP65 means it's resistant to 'spray' - like rain, not a firehose - and it seems like a battery compartment with a tight-fitting cover would be more than enough for this. IP68 doesn't apparently mandate a depth rating but recent iPhones are tested to 6 meters for 30 minutes. That's more water pressure than 99% of those iPhones are ever going to see. I don't personally think the non-replaceable battery has anything to do with IP rating, it's because manufacturers want soft-sided batteries with more delicate terminal connections, for volume/capacity reasons.

prmoustache 3y ago
Most waterproof norms are only valid for freshwater. Most usb/lightning ports rust after being subjected to salted water and you end up not being able to charge your device anymore.
- brookst 3y ago
  Really? I've taken many an iPhone snorkling in the ocean, just in zipped pocket, and they have all been fine.
  - aembleton 3y ago
    That's really impressive. I destroyed a Sony phone a few years ago just going for a short swim in the sea.
- tempestn 3y ago
  This can be largely mitigated by rinsing/soaking the device in fresh water to dissolve the salt.

snuxoll 3y ago

My GoPro's are waterproof yet they have removable batteries. It's not impossible, but it does mean they have to be every so slightly thicker.

timeon 3y ago
> so slightly thicker. Maybe if they decrease size of display, it wouldn't be that bulky. And we would finally get a phone again that is not wannabe tablet.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > Maybe if they decrease size of display But how are you gonna show all the ads, dark patterns and newsletter signup forms? We can't afford to miss out on all that growth and engagement.
  - chongli 3y ago
    Small screen size doesn’t stop them. They just block the entire screen with that junk!
megablast 3y ago
Waterproof with an external case.
- snuxoll 3y ago
  No? My Hero 10 and 11 are both waterproof on their own up to 10m, as long as I use the included battery door (can’t use the optional doors that allow direct access to the USB port, or the media mod). There is a dive housing that can handle up to 60m depth, but that’s a special case.

JohnFen 3y ago

> This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries! Except it doesn't. The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack. What it does is add a few dollars onto the BOM.

phan 3y ago
You must be joking if you think its just a BOM adjustment and a small cost... way to oversimplify the actual implementation
- freeone3000 3y ago
  There was a beautiful period where phones had a headphone jack and a USB-C connector and a replaceable battery and IP67 water resistance.
  - cout 3y ago
    Which phone was that?
    - bmicraft 3y ago
      Galaxy S5 did it just fine
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Only if you kept the flap on the headphone jack… https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-dont-try-this-with-your-iphone/#:~:text=It's%20important%20to%20remember%20that,or%20are%20in%20extreme%20environments https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d....
        Jochim 3y ago
        According to the article, the flap was to protect the USB port. The other internals were protected by an internal gasket on the removable back cover.

pjmlp 3y ago

As I keep mentioning, Nokia has been building hardened phones for construction workers, with replacement batteries, for ages, all the way back to their feature phones.

scarface_74 3y ago
Yes, I am sure people want to carry around ruggedized phones like it’s 2005. I programmed them working in field services.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  That doesn't invalidate their existence.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Did you actually use one of those ruggedized phones that were used by field service workers?
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      In a previous life I worked for Nokia...
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        They aren’t exactly things you carry around in your pocket. http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobile-computer-two-os-options-android-windows-intermec-cn51/ http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobil...
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Better search more appropriate examples, all the way back to first models. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210 They can even fit into a pocket!

timeon 3y ago

> users want them to be waterproof They also want displays not to crack. That is why lot of them are buying protective cases. Are not sealed up phones overrate in this context?

ktosobcy 3y ago

I don't. I just want it splash resistant - it's more than enough. just because there is a promile of morons that can't handle the phone doesn't mean that a lots of users should be prohibited from easily changing the battery... because of that lots of devices end up on landslide because users can't get enough charge I fit anymore... I loved lumia devices - easily openable back to replace battery, nice materials (rubbery polycarbonate?) that offered nice grip. Having PC displays instead of glass would be awesome - no need for extra protective case because the shatter woild be a tning od the past. At the worst, a scratch resistant screen protector, which we all already put in the devices either way to help avoid screen cracks..

astrange 3y ago
If the battery was easier to replace, the phones would still end up unusable either because the storage would wear out, the cell modem would become obsolete, the display would get burnin, or someone would drop it and crack the screen.
- ktosobcy 3y ago
  I'm sorry but what? I replaced my previous mobile (OnePlus3) because of the battery - after about 4-5 years it became quite difficult to get through the day on single charge, and in the world where everything is getting more "electronic" (tickets!) it became a problem. Yes, id didn't have newest 5G, but guess what - my new phone has it yet I don't have coverage. Storage could wear out but are you really doing load IO test on it? screen burnin/crack... maybe if someone is glued to the phone "24/7" and doesn't take care of the device... but as I said - using good policarbon materials (including for screen!) would get rid of this problem mostly...
  - astrange 3y ago
    That's a sample of one but we're talking about millions in different countries here and a bit longer timescale than here. I don't think phones could last say 10 years with battery swaps and nothing else.

oblio 3y ago

This is just ridiculous. See Jerry Rig Everything. He even says that there are solutions for this even for glued-up phones, manufacturers just don't want to implement them because they're for sure against battery replacements. It's not like glue is some sort of magic substance.

crabbone 3y ago

What a bunch of crock. I have this new Nokia phone with a replaceable battery. It came with the pin you can use to open it (probably costs a few cents to manufacture, but if I had plenty of time to spare, I could've made one with a sturdy piece of plastic and sandpaper). The "mechanism" that keeps the back panel is just a piece of rubber, probably the same kind you find on hermetically sealing food containers. Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). And even if you really, really wanted that, you could like spend 5-10 Euro on a water-proof case.

scarface_74 3y ago
Si few people want their phone to be protected from water?
megablast 3y ago
> Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it?
- aceazzameen 3y ago
  Back when phones still had removable batteries, I had them rained on, spilled on, and even dropped one in the toilet. I then submerged that one in a bowl of rubbing alcohol for several minutes. In all those instances, I popped the battery out and let it dry. I've never had a phone destroyed by water. Worst case was buy a new battery! Back then non-waterproof phones without removable batteries also existed. I'm sure they succumbed to water much more easily. I'd take a removeable battery over almost every modern feature on phones today.
- DJHenk 3y ago
  > This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it? If rain destroys your phone that is just plain incompetence from the design department. Or rather, they were not incompetent, but other forces made sure they were not paying much attention to water resistance. My wettest experience with a smartphone was when I got surprised by heavy rain when walking to the hair dresser. I arrived soaking wet. Got the phone (a HTC Desire Z) out of my pocket, water was running out of it. I opened the battery lid, the hairdresser blew with the hairdryer for a couple of minutes and all was fine.

pishpash 3y ago

So is it waterproof capability or planned obsolescence? You all make it sound nefarious when it is just PM's doing what PM's do.

kaba0 3y ago

I want replaceable batteries in that I want to replace them like 2-3 years after purchase. Which is already possible for a negligible price. You really shouldn’t want to replace batteries on the fly in general — it makes stealing easier (modern phones can’t be powered off easily without authorization) so you may find it before it loses power, waterproofing suffers, etc.

pantalaimon 3y ago

Of all my phones that broke, none was due to fluid but all due to a cracked screen. Yet I don’t see manufacturers add better screen protection, quite the opposite in fact. So phone cases/bumpers it is for me now.