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I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided,

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replaceable batteries? I'm skeptical, and think it could shrink the market and lower the quality for users. I feel like a much better approach would be to say that phones must work with third party batteries, and manufacturers can't restrict battery replacements to their own repair centres. That increases competition, helps small businesses, and encourages a thriving batter recycling and replacement market, increasing device lifetime. As for USB-C, similar legislation about increasing compatibility and reducing lock-in (neutralising Apple's MFi program for example) could have had similar impact without the downsides of the industry being unable to move forward.

smn1234 3y ago
I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the features of the new hardware that should be the compelling, selling point and the way to a value statement that wins hearts and minds.
- eterevsky 3y ago
  If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    Waterproof phones with replacable batteries might not be waterproof after the replacement - so why don't you just keep the original battery, and have a waterproof phone? Win-win for everyone.
    - eterevsky 3y ago
      From my understanding, sealant used to make phones waterproof is basically glue, which precludes "easy" replacement of batteries.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        I don't think you properly understood my comment. I am specifically saying: even if replacing the battery makes the phone no longer waterproof, you can just not replace the battery. Nobody comes into your house at night and forces you to install a new battery because your old one isn't good anymore.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        It's very nice to be able to replace a battery in the field. I used to carry a spare charged battery and swap it for an instant recharge. That use case is still valuable to me, but isn't possible anymore.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Yes, that is why I'm arguing that even if changing the battery must necessarily break the waterseal, the battery should still be changable. In this hypothetical scenario it would be worth it to leave it open to the individual.
        eterevsky 3y ago
        I understood your comment. The article implies that the battery has to be _easily_ replaceable, i.e. that you could just take a battery and maybe a screwdriver out of your pocket and replace it. I don't think it's easy to design a phone that would at the same time a) have easily replaceable battery, and b) be waterproof until the first battery replacement.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  > I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in circumstances when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone I don’t deny that this is a valid use case for you, but I’ve absolutely never been in this position. I carry around a battery phone charger in situations where I’d depend on my phone. If you squint, yes that’s pretty similar, but the big difference is that a USB charger can power my iPhone and my partners android phone without requiring the phones to use standardized batteries internally. I think batteries should be replacing in a repair sense, but I’m not sure the “pop open the back and swap it on the streets of Tokyo” is a common use case we should legislate against. Like others said, I would much rather have it be more durable (eg waterproof). Also I’ll add that thinness is a desirable trait (to a point).
  - smn1234 3y ago
    Carrying around bulky power banks or worse, chargers to then tie you to sit close to an outlet and wait for the battery to charge, is not entirely ideal when you're on the go, foreign or domestic. It's also less anxiety-inducing to not have to worry about where will I get my next charge and how long will it interrupt my plans for.
    - vineyardmike 3y ago
      The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries? And it has the benefit of being sharable. And it has the benefit of being able to work hot - you don’t have to turn off your phone to charge it.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        > The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries They're a lot bulkier. Phone batteries are physically very small and light. Good power banks aren't.
        jenadine 3y ago
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  For your use case, powerbanks work very well. Because then you dont have to turn the phone of. My main motivation for only using battery removable phones is privacy, because I know they are really off, when I remove the battery. But the choice is currently very limited.
- tomp 3y ago
  What's the difference between carrying an extra replaceable battery with you, vs carrying an external battery you can use to charge the phone?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Weight, bulk, and the time it takes to actually do the charge.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    External power banks charge via USB. Most people don't want to walk around with their phone tethered via 4ft USB cable to a power bank in their backpack.
- cthalupa 3y ago
  I feel like those rarer circumstances can be handled pretty easily with a portable battery bank, and also pull double duty for any other USB devices you might have. With my 14 Pro Max I charge my phone every 2-3 days, and I'm not letting it get down to <20% when doing this, either. I'm obviously not making heavy use of it over this time, but even on days when I am out and about and using it more, I'm never in danger of it running out of battery. Personally, at least, I'll take the sleeker design vs. an easily swap-able battery. Thankfully, it sounds like the EU law doesn't actually require it be replaceable in a tool-less manner, so it sounds like the type of design the iPhone 14 (non-max) uses will qualify.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    If you held a 2014 Galaxy Note 4 in one hand, and a modern iPhone in the other, I think you'd notice that the sleekness factor is not that different.
    - pmontra 3y ago
      From GSM Arena Galaxy Note 4 Dimensions 153.5 x 78.6 x 8.5 mm (6.04 x 3.09 x 0.33 in) Weight 176 g (6.21 oz) iPhone 14 Pro Dimensions 146.7 x 71.5 x 7.8 mm (5.78 x 2.81 x 0.31 in) Weight 172 g (6.07 oz) iPhone 14 Pro Max Dimensions 160.7 x 77.6 x 7.9 mm (6.33 x 3.06 x 0.31 in) Weight 240 g (8.47 oz) 240 g? What did they put into that phone?
logifail 3y ago
> this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts Experts? <chuckle> In Brussels - just as in Washington - they listen to lobbyists. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-european-parliament-brussels-corporate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro... https://www.lemonde.fr/en/european-union/article/2023/04/24/in-brussels-lobbies-have-a-bright-future-ahead_6024064_156.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/european-union/article/2023/04/24/... https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/15/the-power-of-lobbyists-is-growing-in-brussels-and-berlin https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/15/the-power-of-l...
jklinger410 3y ago
I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue to argue in this thread, but the point of this reply was simply to point out that the parent comment was all thinly veiled opinions with no substance.
- nickff 3y ago
  >"I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar requirements in the alkaline era, we might never have gotten to Lithium-Ion.
  - notRobot 3y ago
    There's no reason why devices can't have such a newer, better port alongside type-c. Until the new port gains traction the presence of type-c will help with compatibility, and presumably once this hypothetical connector has been proven better than type-c the regulation will simply be updated to mandate that instead.
    - dmix 3y ago
      How can it exist along side USB-C? You mean two ports or a converter or something?
      - wongarsu 3y ago
        Either a port that's compatible with USB-C charging but has otherwise different pins or electrical characteristics (just like how a USB-A port has 4 pins in USB 2 but 8 pins in USB 3, but is still compatible). Or you just add a second port.
ruined 3y ago
battery life is the driver of phone waste. i buy used sub-flagship phones two or three cycles behind. they're much cheaper, they do what i need, they're not too slow for modern software. but the battery is the worst part. i get a day's life at best. a year in i'm camping by outlets all day if i need to use my phone more than incidentally. all of these phones would be perfectly good on the secondary market if a battery replacement service didn't cost as much as replacing the phone itself. i used to swap batteries myself. but it's increasingly difficult to do without damaging the screen as you peel it apart, and at that point the phone is totaled.
- upon_drumhead 3y ago
  I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.
  - ruined 3y ago
    apple support is an exception. and that's still half the cost of a good used iphone xs. if you'd just bought new old stock, you'd be ahead. i'm currently running a pixel 4, and a battery swap would cost more than i spent on the phone.
    - nickff 3y ago
      Used iPhone XSs are selling for <2/3 the price of new old stock (NOS). Why did you shift from one item to the other in the middle of your comment?
      - ruined 3y ago
        at the same price, i'd rather have new old stock than one that's been through god-knows-what plus open heart surgery. not sure where you're getting your prices, but it doesn't matter. the fact that this is even a point of contention indicates that swappable batteries would make a difference.
frankfrankfrank 3y ago
[flagged]
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > the EU was born from authoritarianism and has no democratic value Oh please. Enlighten us how it's undemocratic and authoritarian. I would like to reminder before you start that every country joined willingly (and Brexit proved they can leave), its parliament is elected by the population of the member states, and the council of ministers are representatives of each member state democratic elected governments. But please tell us all how it's undemocratic.
Etheryte 3y ago
This is misguided, even though Apple is going to implement USB-C on the iPhone for the EU market, they're still not going to offer it in the US. It's naive to think big companies act in any interest besides their own unless forced.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    > they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem. Every time someone says shit like "locked into the Apple ecosystem", god kills a kitten. Lots of people switch back and forth between iOS and Android. Nobody's going to go for USB-C on their iPhones if they can get Lightning ports. The Lightning port is far superior mechanically (both more durable and easier to clean from debris) and unlike most Android phones, not attached to the mainboard - so it can be replaced if damaged.
    - wizofaus 3y ago
      I only claimed it were possible, but it would (pleasantly) surprise me if there were executives at Apple that thought interoperability with competing technologies should be part of their corporate strategy. Lightning ports may well be technically superior (I can't really judge as I've had dozens of devices using USB-C, 95% of the time with no issues, but relatively few occasions to use lightning ports - thought I do have an iPad that's bricked currently because I can't find a cable for it), but if Apple is unwilling to license the technology to other manufacturers then there's no chance of it ever being any sort of universal standard. Personally I'd rather hoped that by now we didn't need cables/plugs at all!
    - Etheryte 3y ago
waihtis 3y ago
> misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. Ask yourself what kind of game regulators are really playing? See how many former banking regulators end up working at large banks, same is true for pharma and without even looking probably many other industries. The regulatory system is in place only partially to safeguard people, it is also in place to enforce barriers of entry and it is in place to act as a nice career pathway for it's participants.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zgluck 3y ago
[flagged]
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use, and making the battery hard to replace is a huge pain for end users (and in turn, to their wallets and the environment). Just pulling off the back plate and using your fingernail to replace the battery has turned to having to heat the screen, insert a wedge under the glass, but not deeper than X mm, scrub away the glue, without beaking the screen, unscewing a zillion screws, removing the mainboard, just to reach the battery, then unglueing the battery and the nfc antennas, inserting a new battery, which is sometimes impossible to buy from an OEM, assembling all together, reapplying glue, sticking it all together and hoping it won't fall apart in the pocket... or paying >100eur for a battery replacement, which is sometimes more than half the price of a new phone.
- lolinder 3y ago
  > Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use I hang onto my phones until the software becomes unusable, either because apps drop support for my OS (and I can't update any more) or I get scared into upgrading for security. I've never had a battery fail or even get to the point where it doesn't last a whole day—the software fails first. My understanding is that it's different with iOS, because Apple is much better at supporting their old phones than most Android manufacturers.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    My experience is that it's neither the battery nor the software that fails: It's the phone modem. Every single one of my Android phones stopped working as phones 3 to 5 years down the line. Couldn't take calls, the phone never became aware of them. Couldn't call anyone, not even emergency services, the phone never connected despite full bars. It's always the fucking phone modem. I'm still using an Android, but when this one eventually fails (this one's starting to flake out at not even a year old, bought new...) I might seriously move over to an iPhone simply because every single iPhone I've seen others use has apparently never stopped working as phones. That's even if they fried a couple Lightning cables and whatnot. I bought a phone, I expect it to phone. God damn.
dehrmann 3y ago
One reason I like not having user-replaceable batteries is it makes the phones smaller, or the batteries bigger. I'd rather have an extra 50% capacity and pay $100 to replace the battery once in my phone's life than not have the capacity and go through two replacement cycles.
sime2009 3y ago
> but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. You do realise that the EU gave the industry (i.e. the "experts") the task of defining and agreeing on a standard for charging cables? The manufacturers worked on this and agreed on USB-C, all except one US based fruit company.
raverbashing 3y ago
USB-C wasn't a problem because that legislation was being talked about for a long time, and everybody "got in line" except Apple But it was the reason why we moved from the crapfest of earlier 2000's "everybody has a different charger"

smn1234 3y ago

I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the features of the new hardware that should be the compelling, selling point and the way to a value statement that wins hearts and minds.

eterevsky 3y ago
If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.
- Timon3 3y ago
  Waterproof phones with replacable batteries might not be waterproof after the replacement - so why don't you just keep the original battery, and have a waterproof phone? Win-win for everyone.
  - eterevsky 3y ago
    From my understanding, sealant used to make phones waterproof is basically glue, which precludes "easy" replacement of batteries.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      I don't think you properly understood my comment. I am specifically saying: even if replacing the battery makes the phone no longer waterproof, you can just not replace the battery. Nobody comes into your house at night and forces you to install a new battery because your old one isn't good anymore.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        It's very nice to be able to replace a battery in the field. I used to carry a spare charged battery and swap it for an instant recharge. That use case is still valuable to me, but isn't possible anymore.
        Timon3 3y ago
        Yes, that is why I'm arguing that even if changing the battery must necessarily break the waterseal, the battery should still be changable. In this hypothetical scenario it would be worth it to leave it open to the individual.
      - eterevsky 3y ago
        I understood your comment. The article implies that the battery has to be _easily_ replaceable, i.e. that you could just take a battery and maybe a screwdriver out of your pocket and replace it. I don't think it's easy to design a phone that would at the same time a) have easily replaceable battery, and b) be waterproof until the first battery replacement.
vineyardmike 3y ago
> I'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in circumstances when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone I don’t deny that this is a valid use case for you, but I’ve absolutely never been in this position. I carry around a battery phone charger in situations where I’d depend on my phone. If you squint, yes that’s pretty similar, but the big difference is that a USB charger can power my iPhone and my partners android phone without requiring the phones to use standardized batteries internally. I think batteries should be replacing in a repair sense, but I’m not sure the “pop open the back and swap it on the streets of Tokyo” is a common use case we should legislate against. Like others said, I would much rather have it be more durable (eg waterproof). Also I’ll add that thinness is a desirable trait (to a point).
- smn1234 3y ago
  Carrying around bulky power banks or worse, chargers to then tie you to sit close to an outlet and wait for the battery to charge, is not entirely ideal when you're on the go, foreign or domestic. It's also less anxiety-inducing to not have to worry about where will I get my next charge and how long will it interrupt my plans for.
  - vineyardmike 3y ago
    The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries? And it has the benefit of being sharable. And it has the benefit of being able to work hot - you don’t have to turn off your phone to charge it.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > The portable battery pack is no more bulky than carrying around portable phone batteries They're a lot bulkier. Phone batteries are physically very small and light. Good power banks aren't.
      - jenadine 3y ago
hutzlibu 3y ago
For your use case, powerbanks work very well. Because then you dont have to turn the phone of. My main motivation for only using battery removable phones is privacy, because I know they are really off, when I remove the battery. But the choice is currently very limited.
tomp 3y ago
What's the difference between carrying an extra replaceable battery with you, vs carrying an external battery you can use to charge the phone?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Weight, bulk, and the time it takes to actually do the charge.
- rchaud 3y ago
  External power banks charge via USB. Most people don't want to walk around with their phone tethered via 4ft USB cable to a power bank in their backpack.
cthalupa 3y ago
I feel like those rarer circumstances can be handled pretty easily with a portable battery bank, and also pull double duty for any other USB devices you might have. With my 14 Pro Max I charge my phone every 2-3 days, and I'm not letting it get down to <20% when doing this, either. I'm obviously not making heavy use of it over this time, but even on days when I am out and about and using it more, I'm never in danger of it running out of battery. Personally, at least, I'll take the sleeker design vs. an easily swap-able battery. Thankfully, it sounds like the EU law doesn't actually require it be replaceable in a tool-less manner, so it sounds like the type of design the iPhone 14 (non-max) uses will qualify.
- rchaud 3y ago
  If you held a 2014 Galaxy Note 4 in one hand, and a modern iPhone in the other, I think you'd notice that the sleekness factor is not that different.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    From GSM Arena Galaxy Note 4 Dimensions 153.5 x 78.6 x 8.5 mm (6.04 x 3.09 x 0.33 in) Weight 176 g (6.21 oz) iPhone 14 Pro Dimensions 146.7 x 71.5 x 7.8 mm (5.78 x 2.81 x 0.31 in) Weight 172 g (6.07 oz) iPhone 14 Pro Max Dimensions 160.7 x 77.6 x 7.9 mm (6.33 x 3.06 x 0.31 in) Weight 240 g (8.47 oz) 240 g? What did they put into that phone?

logifail 3y ago

> this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts Experts? <chuckle> In Brussels - just as in Washington - they listen to lobbyists. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-european-parliament-brussels-corporate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro... https://www.lemonde.fr/en/european-union/article/2023/04/24/in-brussels-lobbies-have-a-bright-future-ahead_6024064_156.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/european-union/article/2023/04/24/... https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/15/the-power-of-lobbyists-is-growing-in-brussels-and-berlin https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/15/the-power-of-l...

jklinger410 3y ago

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue to argue in this thread, but the point of this reply was simply to point out that the parent comment was all thinly veiled opinions with no substance.

nickff 3y ago
>"I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. " Compelling the use of USB-C will cause stagnation in connector innovation; there's no point in trying to to create new and more durable/water-proof/wear-resistant/faster connectors. The requirements for replaceable batteries may cause stagnation in other innovations; if we imagine that there'd been similar requirements in the alkaline era, we might never have gotten to Lithium-Ion.
- notRobot 3y ago
  There's no reason why devices can't have such a newer, better port alongside type-c. Until the new port gains traction the presence of type-c will help with compatibility, and presumably once this hypothetical connector has been proven better than type-c the regulation will simply be updated to mandate that instead.
  - dmix 3y ago
    How can it exist along side USB-C? You mean two ports or a converter or something?
    - wongarsu 3y ago
      Either a port that's compatible with USB-C charging but has otherwise different pins or electrical characteristics (just like how a USB-A port has 4 pins in USB 2 but 8 pins in USB 3, but is still compatible). Or you just add a second port.

ruined 3y ago

battery life is the driver of phone waste. i buy used sub-flagship phones two or three cycles behind. they're much cheaper, they do what i need, they're not too slow for modern software. but the battery is the worst part. i get a day's life at best. a year in i'm camping by outlets all day if i need to use my phone more than incidentally. all of these phones would be perfectly good on the secondary market if a battery replacement service didn't cost as much as replacing the phone itself. i used to swap batteries myself. but it's increasingly difficult to do without damaging the screen as you peel it apart, and at that point the phone is totaled.

upon_drumhead 3y ago
I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.
- ruined 3y ago
  apple support is an exception. and that's still half the cost of a good used iphone xs. if you'd just bought new old stock, you'd be ahead. i'm currently running a pixel 4, and a battery swap would cost more than i spent on the phone.
  - nickff 3y ago
    Used iPhone XSs are selling for <2/3 the price of new old stock (NOS). Why did you shift from one item to the other in the middle of your comment?
    - ruined 3y ago
      at the same price, i'd rather have new old stock than one that's been through god-knows-what plus open heart surgery. not sure where you're getting your prices, but it doesn't matter. the fact that this is even a point of contention indicates that swappable batteries would make a difference.

frankfrankfrank 3y ago

[flagged]

surgical_fire 3y ago
> the EU was born from authoritarianism and has no democratic value Oh please. Enlighten us how it's undemocratic and authoritarian. I would like to reminder before you start that every country joined willingly (and Brexit proved they can leave), its parliament is elected by the population of the member states, and the council of ministers are representatives of each member state democratic elected governments. But please tell us all how it's undemocratic.

Etheryte 3y ago

This is misguided, even though Apple is going to implement USB-C on the iPhone for the EU market, they're still not going to offer it in the US. It's naive to think big companies act in any interest besides their own unless forced.

wizofaus 3y ago
If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  > they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem. Every time someone says shit like "locked into the Apple ecosystem", god kills a kitten. Lots of people switch back and forth between iOS and Android. Nobody's going to go for USB-C on their iPhones if they can get Lightning ports. The Lightning port is far superior mechanically (both more durable and easier to clean from debris) and unlike most Android phones, not attached to the mainboard - so it can be replaced if damaged.
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    I only claimed it were possible, but it would (pleasantly) surprise me if there were executives at Apple that thought interoperability with competing technologies should be part of their corporate strategy. Lightning ports may well be technically superior (I can't really judge as I've had dozens of devices using USB-C, 95% of the time with no issues, but relatively few occasions to use lightning ports - thought I do have an iPad that's bricked currently because I can't find a cable for it), but if Apple is unwilling to license the technology to other manufacturers then there's no chance of it ever being any sort of universal standard. Personally I'd rather hoped that by now we didn't need cables/plugs at all!
  - Etheryte 3y ago

waihtis 3y ago

> misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. Ask yourself what kind of game regulators are really playing? See how many former banking regulators end up working at large banks, same is true for pharma and without even looking probably many other industries. The regulatory system is in place only partially to safeguard people, it is also in place to enforce barriers of entry and it is in place to act as a nice career pathway for it's participants.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zgluck 3y ago

[flagged]

ajsnigrutin 3y ago

Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use, and making the battery hard to replace is a huge pain for end users (and in turn, to their wallets and the environment). Just pulling off the back plate and using your fingernail to replace the battery has turned to having to heat the screen, insert a wedge under the glass, but not deeper than X mm, scrub away the glue, without beaking the screen, unscewing a zillion screws, removing the mainboard, just to reach the battery, then unglueing the battery and the nfc antennas, inserting a new battery, which is sometimes impossible to buy from an OEM, assembling all together, reapplying glue, sticking it all together and hoping it won't fall apart in the pocket... or paying >100eur for a battery replacement, which is sometimes more than half the price of a new phone.

lolinder 3y ago
> Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use I hang onto my phones until the software becomes unusable, either because apps drop support for my OS (and I can't update any more) or I get scared into upgrading for security. I've never had a battery fail or even get to the point where it doesn't last a whole day—the software fails first. My understanding is that it's different with iOS, because Apple is much better at supporting their old phones than most Android manufacturers.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  My experience is that it's neither the battery nor the software that fails: It's the phone modem. Every single one of my Android phones stopped working as phones 3 to 5 years down the line. Couldn't take calls, the phone never became aware of them. Couldn't call anyone, not even emergency services, the phone never connected despite full bars. It's always the fucking phone modem. I'm still using an Android, but when this one eventually fails (this one's starting to flake out at not even a year old, bought new...) I might seriously move over to an iPhone simply because every single iPhone I've seen others use has apparently never stopped working as phones. That's even if they fried a couple Lightning cables and whatnot. I bought a phone, I expect it to phone. God damn.

dehrmann 3y ago

One reason I like not having user-replaceable batteries is it makes the phones smaller, or the batteries bigger. I'd rather have an extra 50% capacity and pay $100 to replace the battery once in my phone's life than not have the capacity and go through two replacement cycles.

sime2009 3y ago

> but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. You do realise that the EU gave the industry (i.e. the "experts") the task of defining and agreeing on a standard for charging cables? The manufacturers worked on this and agreed on USB-C, all except one US based fruit company.

raverbashing 3y ago

USB-C wasn't a problem because that legislation was being talked about for a long time, and everybody "got in line" except Apple But it was the reason why we moved from the crapfest of earlier 2000's "everybody has a different charger"