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satvikpendem 3y ago
I hope you're not flagged for this great bit of satire, considering Poe's Law and all.
- romanhn 3y ago
  They were. Let's see how long my vouch holds.
fnovd 3y ago
I'm not saying we shouldn't have teams of people filtering this kind of comment. We already do. The issue I have is with the marriage of one specific moderator team to the board/subreddit in question. Comments like yours are the easy ones, automated tools will usually catch it (and it looks like they already did!) When it comes to tricker cases, like with political content, some people have different preferences and those preferences are just that: a preference. If I want to view into a subreddit downstream of a politically-minded set of moderators, I should be able to do that without locking other people into the same view. Right? It doesn't mean that teams aren't all going to universally remove spam.
rajanaccros 3y ago
The community should moderate itself. If a comment like the parent appears it should be downvoted by the community to hidden. The only reason for moderation is to remove things that are illegal. Therefore, all speech is acceptable provided it is not illegal content. A simple flag of "illegal" should be provided that will be marked as review by a moderator. The problem with moderation is the same as the problem with representative democracy. Moderators become entrenched and yield power unilaterally eventually not representing the community. I can't tell you how many times I have been banned, shadow banned, comments removed, not allowed to participate, etc due to the fact that a moderator decides what is best. Edited: to remove ambiguity
- ShellfishMeme 3y ago
  Moderation is also essential to keep communities on topic and enforce a baseline quality level. It doesn't matter for a generic "funny" kind of community, but something like /r/AskHistorians doesn't work without someone ensuring that the guidelines are met. Of course those can also be grounds for disagreement, and I'd be lying if I'd say that I have never been frustrated with a mod when I posted something that was removed even though it clearly didn't break the rules, but I think that kind of false positive is sort of the price you have to pay to keep a community on track. I'd rather have that than have everything devolve to low quality and effort Threads.
  - rajanaccros 3y ago
    I think the same logic can apply to your scenario. If it is off topic it gets downvoted by the community and disappears to hidden. The relevant data gets voted up to the top as again decided by the community. This would inevitably reward first commenters, but that is the situation anyway with current thread voting. I think later commenters as long as not downvoted past a threshold would stay visible with an even(ish) vote count to give those comments the visibility to rise. What about comments that people disagree with that are still on topic but controversial? Well, we are running out of directions so they should get a side vote. Downvotes to explicitly send to hidden as not relevant (spam, off topic, etc), upvotes for agreeable comments base on popularity, side votes for relevant but disagreeable.
    - ShellfishMeme 3y ago
      The thing is thought that through discovery and feeds it happens often that a much larger amount of folks than the ones belonging to the core community flood in. Downvotes alone won't work because nobody knows how things are supposed to work. If you have a costume party with 100 people and 10 arrive without costume, they are the outsiders that have to adapt. If 1000 people join your party you're the weird minority and your costume party will be over.
    - khedoros1 3y ago
      Things that are off-topic and illegal aren't the only ones that get downvoted, though. HN is unusual in the sense that it's discouraged to downvote things you dislike; that's the effective status quo in most other communities. In your proposed system, you'll have some people side-voting those comments, and you're going to have others downvoting them.

satvikpendem 3y ago

I hope you're not flagged for this great bit of satire, considering Poe's Law and all.

romanhn 3y ago
They were. Let's see how long my vouch holds.

fnovd 3y ago

I'm not saying we shouldn't have teams of people filtering this kind of comment. We already do. The issue I have is with the marriage of one specific moderator team to the board/subreddit in question. Comments like yours are the easy ones, automated tools will usually catch it (and it looks like they already did!) When it comes to tricker cases, like with political content, some people have different preferences and those preferences are just that: a preference. If I want to view into a subreddit downstream of a politically-minded set of moderators, I should be able to do that without locking other people into the same view. Right? It doesn't mean that teams aren't all going to universally remove spam.

rajanaccros 3y ago

The community should moderate itself. If a comment like the parent appears it should be downvoted by the community to hidden. The only reason for moderation is to remove things that are illegal. Therefore, all speech is acceptable provided it is not illegal content. A simple flag of "illegal" should be provided that will be marked as review by a moderator. The problem with moderation is the same as the problem with representative democracy. Moderators become entrenched and yield power unilaterally eventually not representing the community. I can't tell you how many times I have been banned, shadow banned, comments removed, not allowed to participate, etc due to the fact that a moderator decides what is best. Edited: to remove ambiguity

ShellfishMeme 3y ago
Moderation is also essential to keep communities on topic and enforce a baseline quality level. It doesn't matter for a generic "funny" kind of community, but something like /r/AskHistorians doesn't work without someone ensuring that the guidelines are met. Of course those can also be grounds for disagreement, and I'd be lying if I'd say that I have never been frustrated with a mod when I posted something that was removed even though it clearly didn't break the rules, but I think that kind of false positive is sort of the price you have to pay to keep a community on track. I'd rather have that than have everything devolve to low quality and effort Threads.
- rajanaccros 3y ago
  I think the same logic can apply to your scenario. If it is off topic it gets downvoted by the community and disappears to hidden. The relevant data gets voted up to the top as again decided by the community. This would inevitably reward first commenters, but that is the situation anyway with current thread voting. I think later commenters as long as not downvoted past a threshold would stay visible with an even(ish) vote count to give those comments the visibility to rise. What about comments that people disagree with that are still on topic but controversial? Well, we are running out of directions so they should get a side vote. Downvotes to explicitly send to hidden as not relevant (spam, off topic, etc), upvotes for agreeable comments base on popularity, side votes for relevant but disagreeable.
  - ShellfishMeme 3y ago
    The thing is thought that through discovery and feeds it happens often that a much larger amount of folks than the ones belonging to the core community flood in. Downvotes alone won't work because nobody knows how things are supposed to work. If you have a costume party with 100 people and 10 arrive without costume, they are the outsiders that have to adapt. If 1000 people join your party you're the weird minority and your costume party will be over.
  - khedoros1 3y ago
    Things that are off-topic and illegal aren't the only ones that get downvoted, though. HN is unusual in the sense that it's discouraged to downvote things you dislike; that's the effective status quo in most other communities. In your proposed system, you'll have some people side-voting those comments, and you're going to have others downvoting them.