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It's sad that the advent of new technology is never viewed as an opportunity to reduce violence. If the police can put themselves out of harms way using a dron

by screye 3y ago

It's sad that the advent of new technology is never viewed as an opportunity to reduce violence. If the police can put themselves out of harms way using a drone, doesn't that help with peaceful de-escalation? A drone opens up options like tasers and pepper spray, that would have otherwise been impossible for police to deploy at a distance. If facial recognition can be done with near 100% accuracy, then what's wrong with it being used to identify the location of someone who has committed a life sentence worthy crime ? I agree that drones and facial recognition should never be fully automated as a robotic civilian disposal system. But when used responsibly, the tools are much better options than what we have today : Guns. a GTA car chase can be swiftly stopped using drones. Don't need an expensive helicopter and a rampaging maniac to kill someone at 150 mph. We are teaching kids what to do in the case of a school shooter, and arming school guards to the teeth. Schools have the hardware for facial recognition cameras. A manual "choose target -> hone in -> shoot pepper spray" mechanism is less dangerous and immediately neutralizes a threat. Yes, the rest of the kids are likely to get very painful chillies in their eyes, but you saved their lives. (I'll admit this one is stretch) Yes, it seems dystopian because movies portray it as dystopian. But in the modern world, the state has total monopoly over violence. We already live in a surveillance state, and the worst case outcome is already as bad as it can get (death). Using tech to sustain the same state with less resources and better outcome (physical pain) is not as bad as it sounds.

kristianp 3y ago
> the state has total monopoly over violence. Gun death stats disagree with you on that one.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  The monopoly is on the legitimate claim to force, and is based on Max Weber. David Runciman has an excellent explanation of this in the "Talking Politics" podcast which I recommend unreservedly: <https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership> (Specific segment occurs ~15 minutes in.)
akomtu 3y ago
By far, the biggest danger to people are tyrannies and wars they wage on their neighbors and their own people. Communusm, nazism, maoism have killed so many that only diseases can rival them. Unjust deaths caused by civilian firearms don't even register in the long list of real dangers. The media turns it upside down, of course. The many eyed monstrosity that sees everyone and can be seen by no one - the AI powered tyranny - will ride the wave of fear and anxiety to kill the few freedoms we have.
jonathanstrange 3y ago
To me, it is completely obvious that constant drone surveillance of the whole population is a dystopian nightmare, just like implanting brain chips or constant untargeted cell phone surveillance would be. All of these measures need to be commensurate. Reducing violence may be a noble goal but it needs to be weighed against other values such as individual freedom, privacy, and protection from constant government interference.
nathan_compton 3y ago
"Peaceful de-escalation" is a funny way to describe shooting a dude with a drone.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  "It's not an assassination, it's an 'extrajudicial killing'." "And that makes it so much better?" "Yeah, that's why they made up a whole new word for it."
542354234235 3y ago
Your examples are all rare edge cases, when the day to day is police using unconstitutional excessive force, including deadly force, with little to no accountability. The idea that being a police officer is an incredibly dangerous job is just false, and in many cases, the violence is caused by police escalation. Police already have guns, tasers, pepper space, body armor, other police, etc. You are just as likely to be murdered on the job as a convenience store clerk as a cop. Over 600 convenience store workers are murdered on the job per year [1] compared to about 60 per year for police [2], about 5-7 of which are during serving warrants. Convenience store workers are murdered at about 7 per 100k, while police are about 7-8 per 100k [3]. As for giving police access to sweeping facial ID. Whenever the new thing that whittles down the 4th amendment is talked about, it is almost always with a slam dunk case that is also an incredibly serious case. But the average investigation rarely ends in a slam dunk. Allowing police to bypass protections of privacy and checks and balances to their scope of investigation also destroys lives. Semen found inside a person is pretty obvious, but what about just DNA found at a crime scene. If someone is stabbed in a back alley and police just sweep up DNA and run a massive database and tie it to a homeless person without an alibi. It might not matter that the homeless person slept there a week before, in the absence of a better lead, they might push for a conviction. Or just sweeping up all phone pings in the area during the crime. Maybe someone was in the neighborhood but was completely unrelated. In the absence of a better lead, an innocent person could be targeted. Police being able to fish for facial recognition hits is no different. School shooters? Adding police to patrol schools already has led to police attacking and arresting more students for smaller offenses and ruining more children’s lives, all while failing to stop any school shootings, and it should surprise no one that black and brown kids are the overwhelming victims. “Black students were subjected to more than 80% of the incidents of police violence accounted for in the survey, which analyzed more than 285 incidents over a decade. At least 60% of police assaults on students resulted in serious injury to the students, including broken bones, concussions and hospitalizations. The report also cited 24 cases of sexual assault on students and five student deaths as a result of police force in schools.” Pepper spray drones patrolling schools will be used to target black kids, and when they fail to stop the next 7 school shootings, people will say they really need to be armed with guns to really be able to stop the next school shooting. [1] https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/assaults-and-violent-acts-in-the-private-retail-trade-sector-20032008.pdf https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/assaults-and-violent-acts-i... [2] https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-release... [3] https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm [4] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/report-police-schools-outsize-effect-black-children-rcna63523 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/report-police-schools-ou...

by screye 3y ago

kristianp 3y ago

> the state has total monopoly over violence. Gun death stats disagree with you on that one.

dredmorbius 3y ago
The monopoly is on the legitimate claim to force, and is based on Max Weber. David Runciman has an excellent explanation of this in the "Talking Politics" podcast which I recommend unreservedly: <https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership> (Specific segment occurs ~15 minutes in.)

akomtu 3y ago

By far, the biggest danger to people are tyrannies and wars they wage on their neighbors and their own people. Communusm, nazism, maoism have killed so many that only diseases can rival them. Unjust deaths caused by civilian firearms don't even register in the long list of real dangers. The media turns it upside down, of course. The many eyed monstrosity that sees everyone and can be seen by no one - the AI powered tyranny - will ride the wave of fear and anxiety to kill the few freedoms we have.

jonathanstrange 3y ago

To me, it is completely obvious that constant drone surveillance of the whole population is a dystopian nightmare, just like implanting brain chips or constant untargeted cell phone surveillance would be. All of these measures need to be commensurate. Reducing violence may be a noble goal but it needs to be weighed against other values such as individual freedom, privacy, and protection from constant government interference.

nathan_compton 3y ago

"Peaceful de-escalation" is a funny way to describe shooting a dude with a drone.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
"It's not an assassination, it's an 'extrajudicial killing'." "And that makes it so much better?" "Yeah, that's why they made up a whole new word for it."

542354234235 3y ago

Your examples are all rare edge cases, when the day to day is police using unconstitutional excessive force, including deadly force, with little to no accountability. The idea that being a police officer is an incredibly dangerous job is just false, and in many cases, the violence is caused by police escalation. Police already have guns, tasers, pepper space, body armor, other police, etc. You are just as likely to be murdered on the job as a convenience store clerk as a cop. Over 600 convenience store workers are murdered on the job per year [1] compared to about 60 per year for police [2], about 5-7 of which are during serving warrants. Convenience store workers are murdered at about 7 per 100k, while police are about 7-8 per 100k [3]. As for giving police access to sweeping facial ID. Whenever the new thing that whittles down the 4th amendment is talked about, it is almost always with a slam dunk case that is also an incredibly serious case. But the average investigation rarely ends in a slam dunk. Allowing police to bypass protections of privacy and checks and balances to their scope of investigation also destroys lives. Semen found inside a person is pretty obvious, but what about just DNA found at a crime scene. If someone is stabbed in a back alley and police just sweep up DNA and run a massive database and tie it to a homeless person without an alibi. It might not matter that the homeless person slept there a week before, in the absence of a better lead, they might push for a conviction. Or just sweeping up all phone pings in the area during the crime. Maybe someone was in the neighborhood but was completely unrelated. In the absence of a better lead, an innocent person could be targeted. Police being able to fish for facial recognition hits is no different. School shooters? Adding police to patrol schools already has led to police attacking and arresting more students for smaller offenses and ruining more children’s lives, all while failing to stop any school shootings, and it should surprise no one that black and brown kids are the overwhelming victims. “Black students were subjected to more than 80% of the incidents of police violence accounted for in the survey, which analyzed more than 285 incidents over a decade. At least 60% of police assaults on students resulted in serious injury to the students, including broken bones, concussions and hospitalizations. The report also cited 24 cases of sexual assault on students and five student deaths as a result of police force in schools.” Pepper spray drones patrolling schools will be used to target black kids, and when they fail to stop the next 7 school shootings, people will say they really need to be armed with guns to really be able to stop the next school shooting. [1] https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/assaults-and-violent-acts-in-the-private-retail-trade-sector-20032008.pdf https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/assaults-and-violent-acts-i... [2] https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-release... [3] https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm [4] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/report-police-schools-outsize-effect-black-children-rcna63523 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/report-police-schools-ou...