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I'm almost starting to think they really will break Reddit. When all this started I had no doubt that the protests would come, make their point, end, and then
by jmull 3y ago
I'm almost starting to think they really will break Reddit.
When all this started I had no doubt that the protests would come, make their point, end, and then Reddit would continue on its way.
But this has been so poorly handled.
I think a key to reddit's "success" (such as it is) is that they figured out how to scale moderation -- by getting volunteers to do the tough work for free. I'm sure reddit can toss all the uncooperative mods and get as many new ones as they could ever want.
But they are changing the fundamental dynamic between mod, subreddit and reddit the company. I wonder if this won't actually break the system.
Before, mods could run subreddits as they saw fit, users could choose the subreddits they participated in, and a user can always create a new subreddit if they don't think any existing ones suit their needs.
Now mods will have to accept that supporting reddit's business goals is the "zeroth law" for any subreddit. I just wonder if enough quality moderators will be willing to put in the time and effort required to keep a larger community from devolving into a cess pool, or to build up new subreddits -- for free.
When you're working for yourself doing what you want, when you want, you don't mind not getting paid for it. When a boss is telling you want to do and when to do it, you expect to get paid. Reddit is making itself the boss of the mods.
The thing is, this is an entirely unforced error. Overwhelmingly, the natural interests of subreddits are aligned with Reddits business goals, or at least aren't in opposition to them. The horribly handled roll out of the API pricing has essentially backed mods into a corner, basically forcing them to protest and then extend the protest.
IDK, maybe this was all 4D chess, and reddit wanted to get rid of third party apps and have an excuse to purge moderators with a sense of ownership over the subreddits they moderate. But it sure seems to me like they just don't know what they are doing. I know reddit needs to figure out how to become sustainable (profitable), and changing the dynamic between reddit and third-party apps is likely a necessary part of that. But I can't believe disengaging moderators can possibly help.
- cactus2093 3y ago> Before, mods could run subreddits as they saw fit, users could choose the subreddits they participated in, and a user can always create a new subreddit if they don't think any existing ones suit their needs. As a frequent Reddit user I don't agree with that. The network effects of subreddits plus the fact that they usually own the default name for a topic grant a lot of subs effective monopolies. As a user if I don't like something about a certain subreddit including how it's moderated, the more realistic option is just to not participate in that subject matter on Reddit. I can still use Reddit for other topics but I feel like there's very rarely an alternative subreddit on the same topic which is anywhere near as active as the main one. So, no offense to Reddit mods, but I really don't think these are all highly skilled, irreplaceable individuals. There's no competition that incentivizes the best people to rise to the top, these are just average folks that volunteered at the right time and now they're mods. There is apparently even a lot of cronyism among the mod community and I have heard that it can be hard to break into for first time mods. If Reddit forces some of them out, there will be many people willing to step in who can do just as good of a job. It might even be a net positive thing to get new people involved.
- Breza 3y ago> The network effects of subreddits plus the fact that they usually own the default name for a topic grant a lot of subs effective monopolies. That's often the case, but not always. A bad mod can drive people to an alternate subs. And having the default name doesn't mean that a sub with an alternate name can't thrive. I enjoy r/marijuanaenthusiasts despite the fact that I've never smoked.
- munificent 3y ago> When you're working for yourself doing what you want, when you want, you don't mind not getting paid for it. When a boss is telling you want to do and when to do it, you expect to get paid. Reddit is making itself the boss of the mods. This is spot on. Reddit's success relies entirely on the intrinsic motivation of moderators. That intrinsic motivation in turn is derived from the feeling of building something of long-lasting value. There is no instrinsic joy in wading through your mod queue and deleting spam and garbage. The work itself is deeply unfun. The reward is feeling that if you do that work and do it consistently, then you will create a space where a community of people you care about can thrive. Now Reddit is sending a clear signal that at any point in time, they can stomp all over your community and kick you out. If I was mod of any decent-sized Reddit, that would make no longer feel safe investing the time it takes to earn that intrinsic reward, when the reward could evaporate at any moment.
- cactus2093 3y ago> create a space where a community of people you care about can thrive > the reward could evaporate at any moment Wait a minute, is the reward the fact that the community exists? That's not going to evaporate overnight when Reddit replaces a mod. The fear of your reward evaporating sounds a lot more like this work is driven by ego and the desire for control.
- munificent 3y agoWould you want to clean your whole house and throw a party if you knew you might get kicked out before the party was over? It's basic human nature to want acknowledgement for going something good.
- marcod 3y agoI'm -> <- this close to deleting all the posts in my 15 year old reddit account. It's not just moderators they are losing.
- ghayes 3y agoPer another thread, it appears Reddit is rapidly undeleting such posts.
- fluidcruft 3y agoSounds likely illegal if true.
- parrellel 3y agoThey definitely undeleted all mine this morning. Waiting to see if they come back again.
- fluidcruft 3y agoIn my experience Reddit seems to have various different cache/worker servers and it can takes a while for things to fully propagate. But they could be so overloaded the deletes are silently failing.
- parrellel 3y agoCheck out the other thread. It looks like they just globally zeroed their is_post_deleted column.
- fluidcruft 3y agoThings I deleted are still [deleted]. Sounds like a bunch of FUD and rdrama.net trolling.
- 3y ago