You have to get them to take that perspective. What happens is "we want all this stuff how long is it going to take" and then they fight that number down while

You have to get them to take that perspective. What happens is "we want all this stuff how long is it going to take" and then they fight that number down while not answering any clarifying questions. So you have to sumo wrestle a bunch of assholes twice your weight into even framing the context correctly before the conversation you recommend can even take place.