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Look, I'm not the biggest Mark Zuckerberg fan or anything, but I don't think the thus-far questionable business decision to pivot to the metaverse is quite the

Look, I'm not the biggest Mark Zuckerberg fan or anything, but I don't think the thus-far questionable business decision to pivot to the metaverse is quite the same level as having an very public mental breakdown and making anti-semitic remarks

aprdm 3y ago
Yeah exactly. I have issues with what social media does to people and some of what Mark has done.. but he is nowhere near my level of despise for Musk, Kanye or others in that circle.
- kulahan 3y ago
  Kanye is suffering from mental illness and was off his medication while simultaneously having millions of dollars, adoring fans, and cameras in his face 24/7/365. I think most of us would do something stupid in that situation. I don't really get why you would "despise" someone for being ill.
  - aprdm 3y ago
    I doubt most of us would support exterminating people if we were sick, but who knows
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - skyyler 3y ago
      You'd be surprised at how easily otherwise intelligent people can get swept up into violent ideologies. Bobby Fischer is just one example of a bright mind corrupted by ideology. There are countless.
    - kulahan 3y ago
      I'm not sure you've got a solid grasp of mental illness and how it affects the way you think.
  - predictabl3 3y ago
    I don't know if you're unaware of the entire saga or if you've done some stuff you regret in the past but going on Alex Jones with Nick Fuentes is not something I'm giving a mental-health-pass on. I'm open to feedback that I'm an ableist jerk but I'm also not holding my breath.
- iaw 3y ago
  I just want to remind you that of the three people listed only Mark took actions that exacerbated a genocide (Rohingya in Myanmar).
  - velp 3y ago
    And Elon's lithium mines aren't similar? Or Kanye's open support of rhetoric linked to the Holocaust?
  - aprdm 3y ago
    Musk melding on turkey elections and other countries isn’t too far off
  - bgun 3y ago
    This is an unfair take. Whatever you think of Meta as a corporation or Zuckerberg as a person, neither caused the Rohingya crisis, much less the conflict; and while it's fair to argue that FB/Meta could have done more to stem hate speech on the platform, your phrasing intentionally villainizes a single individual for an entire ongoing, complex sociopolitical situation.
    - iaw 3y ago
      I have intimate knowledge of FB during that period. Any voice of concern about abuses of the service were repressed as a "we'll deal with that when it's a problem." Concerns about lack of global moderation and enforcement were well known before the massacre. Mark and leadership made a choice akin to what the major oil producers did regarding global warming: kick the can until it's a problem.
iaw 3y ago
I apologize, I should have been clearer. I don't mean Kanye's public antics and statements. I meant his questionable design/musical/performance choices. Mark has lost over $30B on Metaverse supported by a stagnating ad business. Apple just launched an AR product that seems quite a bit better than the Meta options. John Carmack publicly complained about the reasons he left work at Meta which demonstrate a lack of vision at the leadership levels. It's unclear how the Metaverse will play out at this point but it feels like a solution looking from a problem rather than something people really want.
- kipchak 3y ago
  I think the problem Metaverse potentially (partially) solves is the conflict between resource consumption and available supply in consumer culture. In the 2000s there was optimism for the strength of consumer culture, ("for the first time in history there are no practical limits to consumerism."[1]) but we're now beginning to reconcile the desire for infinite growth against finite resources. Digital consumerism is a potential lifeline, as digital products are close to cost free to produce compared to real luxury goods or travel, allowing much higher numbers of people to own them. As people generally become poorer and real consumption grows out of reach, the metaverse potentially serves as a second level of prosperity and success for the have nots in the real world. Some early examples of this are Second Life, valuation of digital items like skins in games and travel and dining POV YouTubers. I think most would prefer the real deal, but if it's unavailable a fake version can be made good enough. [1]https://cup.columbia.edu/book/an-all-consuming-century/9780231113120 https://cup.columbia.edu/book/an-all-consuming-century/97802...
- MattRix 3y ago
  There’s a lot to pick apart here. How much money do you think Apple spent on their VR product vs Meta? Sure Apple’s is better, but it also costs SEVEN times more. Do you really think Apple’s will sell more units any time soon? Meta has already sold tens of millions of quests. Also Carmack is a great programmer, but there’s no reason to think he knows a thing about the market and business strategy. Sure there’s the whole metaverse thing, but even without that, people are getting value out of the Quest right now, playing Beat Saber etc.

aprdm 3y ago

Yeah exactly. I have issues with what social media does to people and some of what Mark has done.. but he is nowhere near my level of despise for Musk, Kanye or others in that circle.

kulahan 3y ago
Kanye is suffering from mental illness and was off his medication while simultaneously having millions of dollars, adoring fans, and cameras in his face 24/7/365. I think most of us would do something stupid in that situation. I don't really get why you would "despise" someone for being ill.
- aprdm 3y ago
  I doubt most of us would support exterminating people if we were sick, but who knows
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - skyyler 3y ago
    You'd be surprised at how easily otherwise intelligent people can get swept up into violent ideologies. Bobby Fischer is just one example of a bright mind corrupted by ideology. There are countless.
  - kulahan 3y ago
    I'm not sure you've got a solid grasp of mental illness and how it affects the way you think.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  I don't know if you're unaware of the entire saga or if you've done some stuff you regret in the past but going on Alex Jones with Nick Fuentes is not something I'm giving a mental-health-pass on. I'm open to feedback that I'm an ableist jerk but I'm also not holding my breath.
iaw 3y ago
I just want to remind you that of the three people listed only Mark took actions that exacerbated a genocide (Rohingya in Myanmar).
- velp 3y ago
  And Elon's lithium mines aren't similar? Or Kanye's open support of rhetoric linked to the Holocaust?
- aprdm 3y ago
  Musk melding on turkey elections and other countries isn’t too far off
- bgun 3y ago
  This is an unfair take. Whatever you think of Meta as a corporation or Zuckerberg as a person, neither caused the Rohingya crisis, much less the conflict; and while it's fair to argue that FB/Meta could have done more to stem hate speech on the platform, your phrasing intentionally villainizes a single individual for an entire ongoing, complex sociopolitical situation.
  - iaw 3y ago
    I have intimate knowledge of FB during that period. Any voice of concern about abuses of the service were repressed as a "we'll deal with that when it's a problem." Concerns about lack of global moderation and enforcement were well known before the massacre. Mark and leadership made a choice akin to what the major oil producers did regarding global warming: kick the can until it's a problem.

iaw 3y ago

I apologize, I should have been clearer. I don't mean Kanye's public antics and statements. I meant his questionable design/musical/performance choices. Mark has lost over $30B on Metaverse supported by a stagnating ad business. Apple just launched an AR product that seems quite a bit better than the Meta options. John Carmack publicly complained about the reasons he left work at Meta which demonstrate a lack of vision at the leadership levels. It's unclear how the Metaverse will play out at this point but it feels like a solution looking from a problem rather than something people really want.

kipchak 3y ago
I think the problem Metaverse potentially (partially) solves is the conflict between resource consumption and available supply in consumer culture. In the 2000s there was optimism for the strength of consumer culture, ("for the first time in history there are no practical limits to consumerism."[1]) but we're now beginning to reconcile the desire for infinite growth against finite resources. Digital consumerism is a potential lifeline, as digital products are close to cost free to produce compared to real luxury goods or travel, allowing much higher numbers of people to own them. As people generally become poorer and real consumption grows out of reach, the metaverse potentially serves as a second level of prosperity and success for the have nots in the real world. Some early examples of this are Second Life, valuation of digital items like skins in games and travel and dining POV YouTubers. I think most would prefer the real deal, but if it's unavailable a fake version can be made good enough. [1]https://cup.columbia.edu/book/an-all-consuming-century/9780231113120 https://cup.columbia.edu/book/an-all-consuming-century/97802...
MattRix 3y ago
There’s a lot to pick apart here. How much money do you think Apple spent on their VR product vs Meta? Sure Apple’s is better, but it also costs SEVEN times more. Do you really think Apple’s will sell more units any time soon? Meta has already sold tens of millions of quests. Also Carmack is a great programmer, but there’s no reason to think he knows a thing about the market and business strategy. Sure there’s the whole metaverse thing, but even without that, people are getting value out of the Quest right now, playing Beat Saber etc.