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You insinuated that my discussion of Hasbara means that I am some kind of "disgusting" Nazi referencing "traditional anti semitic hate propaganda", when I was l

by ucee054 15y ago

You insinuated that my discussion of Hasbara means that I am some kind of "disgusting" Nazi referencing "traditional anti semitic hate propaganda", when I was linking to the Israeli Citizens Information Council's own website. You may find it "depressing when people hate", well I find it depressing when people can't answer my points and so have to resort to declaring the subject to be off limits, then smearing me, and finally changing the subject to Sudan. You owe me an apology. Oh, and by the way, the Israelis did shoot children, bomb and rocket cities in Gaza in 2009, so how on earth do you say "(No, it is not the Israeli side that do that.)"?

berntb 15y ago
You have nothing to say about that the Arab countries destroy Palestinians' lives more than Israel ever did? Or my other points re double standards? >>You insinuated that my discussion of Hasbara means that I am some kind of "disgusting" Nazi referencing "traditional anti semitic hate propaganda", when I was linking to the Israeli Citizens Information Council's own website. You wrote that you thought the Jews controlled the information in the US media. That is less than one step from the Zion protocols, quoted in the Hamas charter etc. That is traditional antisemitic conspiracy arguments. >>the Israelis did shoot children, bomb and rocket cities in Gaza in 2009 If an army fight people that hide among civilians, there will be civilian victims. Even if the army follows the war laws. That is very different from targeting and glorifying murdering children, which I wrote about. (And civilians are generally not a direct target for the Israeli army -- Yes, you know the Israelis are evil and want to murder children, but please realise it is bad PR and against their direct interests.)
- ucee054 15y ago
  > You wrote that you thought the Jews controlled the information in the US media... That is less than one step from the Zion protocols, quoted in the Hamas charter etc. This is not quite what I wrote, but whatever. Even if it were, it's not just the Okhrana, the Nazis and Hamas who say stuff like this either, it is also Zionist lobbyist Haim Saban (Link: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_bruck http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_...) The fact that he said the same thing doesn't make me a pro-Israel billionaire either, anymore than the Protocols make me the Tzarist secret police. The point is that you can dismiss something if it is untrue, not by calling names. You still owe me an apology. > Even if the army follows the war laws. That is very different from targeting and glorifying murdering children, which I wrote about. Israeli Tshirts depict pregnant Palestinians in sniper crosshairs, captioned "one shot two kills". Link: http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15245946 http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15245946 That's two apologies you owe me. > You have nothing to say about that the Arab countries destroy Palestinians' lives more than Israel ever did? How? The Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians caused the refugee problem in the first place Israeli Link: http://zochrot.org/en http://zochrot.org/en > Or my other points re double standards? Again, see http://mondoweiss.net http://mondoweiss.net But let's say you are right for the sake of argument that "Arab countries hurt Palestinians more than Israel ever did" How is that justification for suppressing the factual reportage "Israeli authorities are threatening to demolish the installations in six of the 16 remote West Bank communities being illuminated by alternative energy, arguing the panels and turbines were installed without permits." ? It is not. You are using untruths and smears to try to suppress the facts.
  - berntb 15y ago
    There are lobby groups in the media for every interest group. You argue that the jews control the media with very little support and ignore that it is a carbon copy of racist hate propaganda. You guys also wear white capes? >>The Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians caused the refugee problem in the first place You handpick facts and twist them. Some points: 1. There were lots of refugee problems in both world wars, many worse than Palestine. This is the only case were the suffering was made permanent for generations, just to be able to keep up the hate. It is just disgusting that you blame others for what the Arab states did differently than the rest of the world. 2. There were more people thrown out from the muslim world just for being jews than Palestinians that fled in the middle of a civil war. Then there were jews from the West Bank that fled 1948-1949. Why do you guys never mention them? 3. Argh, enough. You don't argue, you write one eyed hateful propaganda. I stopped reading. This is the result of letting this subject onto HN. The language wars trolls are bad as it is.
    - ucee054 15y ago
      "You handpick facts and twist them" If you think the facts that I or the original poster (or anyone else) have presented about the Israeli treatment of innocent Palestinian civilians, or about Israeli public relations, are selective, then let's see all the facts. That doesn't mean "let's change the subject to Sudan". It doesn't mean "let's call him an antisemite". It also doesn't mean "let's make stuff up". For example, you claimed that Israel doesn't glorify infanticide and I provided the link showing that snipers from the IDF Givati Brigade glorify the shooting dead of fetuses enough to wear Tshirts about it. Or you said that I provided "very little support" for my contentions about Israeli public relations, when in fact I provided the term in Hebrew hasbara that any reader can google and wikipedia for and decide for themselves. It looks pretty silly when you make up stuff that a reader can falsify by looking on the same web page. Worst of all, you keep trying to allege that I said that Jews - control the media, when what I talked about was Israel supporters - organize public relations. This is called ad-hominem. You are trying to label me as Hitler because you are on the wrong side of the facts about Israel's treatment of innocent Palestinian civilians, and so you can't stand seeing these facts on Hacker News and wish to censor them. It is intellectually dishonest and I read it as a violation of the Hacker News Guideline: "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." I will therefore not reply to you further.

by ucee054 15y ago

berntb 15y ago

You have nothing to say about that the Arab countries destroy Palestinians' lives more than Israel ever did? Or my other points re double standards? >>You insinuated that my discussion of Hasbara means that I am some kind of "disgusting" Nazi referencing "traditional anti semitic hate propaganda", when I was linking to the Israeli Citizens Information Council's own website. You wrote that you thought the Jews controlled the information in the US media. That is less than one step from the Zion protocols, quoted in the Hamas charter etc. That is traditional antisemitic conspiracy arguments. >>the Israelis did shoot children, bomb and rocket cities in Gaza in 2009 If an army fight people that hide among civilians, there will be civilian victims. Even if the army follows the war laws. That is very different from targeting and glorifying murdering children, which I wrote about. (And civilians are generally not a direct target for the Israeli army -- Yes, you know the Israelis are evil and want to murder children, but please realise it is bad PR and against their direct interests.)

ucee054 15y ago
> You wrote that you thought the Jews controlled the information in the US media... That is less than one step from the Zion protocols, quoted in the Hamas charter etc. This is not quite what I wrote, but whatever. Even if it were, it's not just the Okhrana, the Nazis and Hamas who say stuff like this either, it is also Zionist lobbyist Haim Saban (Link: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_bruck http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/05/10/100510fa_fact_...) The fact that he said the same thing doesn't make me a pro-Israel billionaire either, anymore than the Protocols make me the Tzarist secret police. The point is that you can dismiss something if it is untrue, not by calling names. You still owe me an apology. > Even if the army follows the war laws. That is very different from targeting and glorifying murdering children, which I wrote about. Israeli Tshirts depict pregnant Palestinians in sniper crosshairs, captioned "one shot two kills". Link: http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15245946 http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15245946 That's two apologies you owe me. > You have nothing to say about that the Arab countries destroy Palestinians' lives more than Israel ever did? How? The Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians caused the refugee problem in the first place Israeli Link: http://zochrot.org/en http://zochrot.org/en > Or my other points re double standards? Again, see http://mondoweiss.net http://mondoweiss.net But let's say you are right for the sake of argument that "Arab countries hurt Palestinians more than Israel ever did" How is that justification for suppressing the factual reportage "Israeli authorities are threatening to demolish the installations in six of the 16 remote West Bank communities being illuminated by alternative energy, arguing the panels and turbines were installed without permits." ? It is not. You are using untruths and smears to try to suppress the facts.
- berntb 15y ago
  There are lobby groups in the media for every interest group. You argue that the jews control the media with very little support and ignore that it is a carbon copy of racist hate propaganda. You guys also wear white capes? >>The Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians caused the refugee problem in the first place You handpick facts and twist them. Some points: 1. There were lots of refugee problems in both world wars, many worse than Palestine. This is the only case were the suffering was made permanent for generations, just to be able to keep up the hate. It is just disgusting that you blame others for what the Arab states did differently than the rest of the world. 2. There were more people thrown out from the muslim world just for being jews than Palestinians that fled in the middle of a civil war. Then there were jews from the West Bank that fled 1948-1949. Why do you guys never mention them? 3. Argh, enough. You don't argue, you write one eyed hateful propaganda. I stopped reading. This is the result of letting this subject onto HN. The language wars trolls are bad as it is.
  - ucee054 15y ago
    "You handpick facts and twist them" If you think the facts that I or the original poster (or anyone else) have presented about the Israeli treatment of innocent Palestinian civilians, or about Israeli public relations, are selective, then let's see all the facts. That doesn't mean "let's change the subject to Sudan". It doesn't mean "let's call him an antisemite". It also doesn't mean "let's make stuff up". For example, you claimed that Israel doesn't glorify infanticide and I provided the link showing that snipers from the IDF Givati Brigade glorify the shooting dead of fetuses enough to wear Tshirts about it. Or you said that I provided "very little support" for my contentions about Israeli public relations, when in fact I provided the term in Hebrew hasbara that any reader can google and wikipedia for and decide for themselves. It looks pretty silly when you make up stuff that a reader can falsify by looking on the same web page. Worst of all, you keep trying to allege that I said that Jews - control the media, when what I talked about was Israel supporters - organize public relations. This is called ad-hominem. You are trying to label me as Hitler because you are on the wrong side of the facts about Israel's treatment of innocent Palestinian civilians, and so you can't stand seeing these facts on Hacker News and wish to censor them. It is intellectually dishonest and I read it as a violation of the Hacker News Guideline: "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." I will therefore not reply to you further.