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> To them, I would need to also point to the sizable fraction of my student population who absolutely despised the project, and may have found that project as t

> To them, I would need to also point to the sizable fraction of my student population who absolutely despised the project, and may have found that project as the last straw in making their decision that they hate coding. There are many reasons why I despise the modern model of education, and this phenomenon might be at the top. Students are presented a miniscule, neutered, cherry-picked slice of a discipline that's thousands of years old, and then they form opinions about it based on their ability to stay interested and perform over the 90-200 hours they're forced to engage with it per year. They think they know what "computer science", "chemistry", "history", "creative writing" is like based on their experiences, but they're always wrong. It's not their fault. You can't know if you're "good at" or "enjoy" "math" based on your experience in school. In school they're not measuring your ability to do math, they're measuring your ability to do math class. Every class has students of deeply mixed abilities soldiering on through a curated set of exercises and practice problems, progressing regardless whether or not they understand the fundamental mechanics of their exercises. Some people end up believing they're "good" at their subject, some people believe they're "bad" at it. They're almost certainly both incorrect.

commandlinefan 3y ago
I think you're correct - at least, you're definitely correct about me. The only things I've ever actually learned were things that I was self-motivated to seek out and study on my own timeline. OTOH, what's the alternative to modern education? I don't think I ever would have gotten around to calculus if I'd waited until I independently "discovered" it.
- quacked 3y ago
  There are so many things that would have to change about society for a suitable alternative to modern education to be put in place that my answer would be so politically radical that most would find it either unpalatable or unpractical. However, here are a few things I think should change about the existing system: - School should start later so the students have more time to sleep. - Phones should be fully banned from classrooms. ("But what if my parents need to reach me?" They can call the school.) - Teachers should be empowered to permanently remove students who cause trouble from their classes. - Students should have the option to test out of any class at any time. - By 11th grade, working a part-time job should count for credit toward graduating, to the point where you can work 40 hours per week and still obtain a diploma. - The GPA on your diploma should be changeable if you come back to night school or summer school as an adult. - The GPA on your diploma should be changeable if you retake the tests from earlier classes. - Students whose parents are capable of homeschooling should be supported by the system to pursue all- or mixed-time homeschooling, while still participating in the community and extracurriculars at school. This is especially true for students who are the target of bullying or who perpetually need more out of the system than it can give them. - Parents who are successfully homeschooling (as measured by high test scores and student-reported satisfaction) should consider taking on a second and even third pupil.

commandlinefan 3y ago

I think you're correct - at least, you're definitely correct about me. The only things I've ever actually learned were things that I was self-motivated to seek out and study on my own timeline. OTOH, what's the alternative to modern education? I don't think I ever would have gotten around to calculus if I'd waited until I independently "discovered" it.

quacked 3y ago
There are so many things that would have to change about society for a suitable alternative to modern education to be put in place that my answer would be so politically radical that most would find it either unpalatable or unpractical. However, here are a few things I think should change about the existing system: - School should start later so the students have more time to sleep. - Phones should be fully banned from classrooms. ("But what if my parents need to reach me?" They can call the school.) - Teachers should be empowered to permanently remove students who cause trouble from their classes. - Students should have the option to test out of any class at any time. - By 11th grade, working a part-time job should count for credit toward graduating, to the point where you can work 40 hours per week and still obtain a diploma. - The GPA on your diploma should be changeable if you come back to night school or summer school as an adult. - The GPA on your diploma should be changeable if you retake the tests from earlier classes. - Students whose parents are capable of homeschooling should be supported by the system to pursue all- or mixed-time homeschooling, while still participating in the community and extracurriculars at school. This is especially true for students who are the target of bullying or who perpetually need more out of the system than it can give them. - Parents who are successfully homeschooling (as measured by high test scores and student-reported satisfaction) should consider taking on a second and even third pupil.