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I am not commenting on whether this is a good thing or not, from my POV that's for each person to decide themselves. However, if this catches on and becomes mo

I am not commenting on whether this is a good thing or not, from my POV that's for each person to decide themselves. However, if this catches on and becomes more prevalent (and I could see that happening), then I'd expect some kind of cyber-vandalism law to be enacted. They can't prosecute based on hacking, because it isn't. But it could be argued you're 'defacing/destroying' digital property by editing to add content that knowingly will mess with their algs. Sooner than that though will be an addition to the EULA, that users cannot enter AI generated content or they agree to get fined, or some such nastiness. The Cyberpunk RPG came out in 1988, and I was in my early 20s. Each decade since I've marvelled at how much closer to that dystopian world we've gotten, and the slope of the downward slide increases every decade. Why do I say that? Because the image of Reddit that's been in my head until today is of an Open Source type thing started by Aaron Schwartz. He was a founder, but that is not today's Reddit. I did some cursory digging and found Reddit is primarily owned (majority shareholder) by Advance Publications, Inc. These are the same people who own, or majorly own (primary or major shareholder): Conde Nast and all its subsidiaries (which now owns Ars Technica), American City Business Journals, Charter Communications, Warner Bros. Discovery, the Ironman Triathlons, many newspapers, Turnitin.com, and probably more. In 2019 Advance Publications was named the largest privately owned American company.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
> But it could be argued you're 'defacing/destroying' digital property But it's your comment. While I'm sure there's legalese in the T's & C's that you hand over all rights to your comment over to Reddit or release it under a permissive license, that doesn't make it right or just. And I think reddit and other communities rely on keeping up the appearance that they respect you and your works, even if they're just shitpost comments.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  They are not your comments. They are Reddit's. And TBH the perception of owning your comments doesn't really matter in the short term... people don't care, they just want to post. In the long term the actual content creators won't like it, but that is a problem for another owner.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    It's not Reddit's content, it's your content and you grant them a license to it. The difference matters for a few reasons: 1. It means the cyber-vandalism law that the grandparent proposed wouldn't have any teeth here because it legally still belongs to you. 2. They can't change that provision because a good chunk of the TOS is about how the fact that it's your content means they're not liable for it. Their nonliability looks a lot fishier if they're also claiming copyright.
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    They are not Reddit's. > The Services may contain information, text, links, graphics, photos, videos, audio, streams, or other materials (“Content”), including Content created with or submitted to the Services by you or through your Account (“Your Content”). We take no responsibility for and we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, support, or guarantee the completeness, truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any of Your Content. > By submitting Your Content to the Services, you represent and warrant that you have all rights, power, and authority necessary to grant the rights to Your Content contained within these Terms. Because you alone are responsible for Your Content, you may expose yourself to liability if you post or share Content without all necessary rights. > You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content: This applies to all their users, not just EU. Only difference is that US TOS make you waive your moral rights. I grant Reddit a right to copy them, but they're mine. If I destroy them, Reddit no longer has them. Which is really just one more proof that reddit's added value is about zero and that looking to profit from _my_ content shows really the kind of leeches that they are.
  - epups 3y ago
    If the comments all belong to Reddit, are they legally liable for any illegal stuff on them?
- lordfrito 3y ago
  What's the point of an edit button then, what gives the user the right to edit Reddit's content?
ohgodplsno 3y ago
>But it could be argued you're 'defacing/destroying' digital property by editing to add content that knowingly will mess with their algs. It cannot. Source: Reddit's ToS and reality: >d. User Content. Reddit user photos, text and videos ("User Content") are owned by the users and not by Reddit. If I want to replace what I posted with seventy five consecutive poop emojis, I am fully in my right to. Coupled with the right to be forgotten and the illegality for reddit to prevent me from doing so, it serves as a perfect tool to poison LLMs.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Additionally, if they leave the edit functionality intact for older posts they would have no legal grounds to stand on. It's not "hacking", or in any way unlawful, for a user to use an option provided by a company. I predict that if they want to do something about this they'll go the HN route and just make posts uneditable/undeleteable after some time.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

> But it could be argued you're 'defacing/destroying' digital property But it's your comment. While I'm sure there's legalese in the T's & C's that you hand over all rights to your comment over to Reddit or release it under a permissive license, that doesn't make it right or just. And I think reddit and other communities rely on keeping up the appearance that they respect you and your works, even if they're just shitpost comments.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
They are not your comments. They are Reddit's. And TBH the perception of owning your comments doesn't really matter in the short term... people don't care, they just want to post. In the long term the actual content creators won't like it, but that is a problem for another owner.
- lolinder 3y ago
  It's not Reddit's content, it's your content and you grant them a license to it. The difference matters for a few reasons: 1. It means the cyber-vandalism law that the grandparent proposed wouldn't have any teeth here because it legally still belongs to you. 2. They can't change that provision because a good chunk of the TOS is about how the fact that it's your content means they're not liable for it. Their nonliability looks a lot fishier if they're also claiming copyright.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  They are not Reddit's. > The Services may contain information, text, links, graphics, photos, videos, audio, streams, or other materials (“Content”), including Content created with or submitted to the Services by you or through your Account (“Your Content”). We take no responsibility for and we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, support, or guarantee the completeness, truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any of Your Content. > By submitting Your Content to the Services, you represent and warrant that you have all rights, power, and authority necessary to grant the rights to Your Content contained within these Terms. Because you alone are responsible for Your Content, you may expose yourself to liability if you post or share Content without all necessary rights. > You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content: This applies to all their users, not just EU. Only difference is that US TOS make you waive your moral rights. I grant Reddit a right to copy them, but they're mine. If I destroy them, Reddit no longer has them. Which is really just one more proof that reddit's added value is about zero and that looking to profit from _my_ content shows really the kind of leeches that they are.
- epups 3y ago
  If the comments all belong to Reddit, are they legally liable for any illegal stuff on them?
lordfrito 3y ago
What's the point of an edit button then, what gives the user the right to edit Reddit's content?

ohgodplsno 3y ago

>But it could be argued you're 'defacing/destroying' digital property by editing to add content that knowingly will mess with their algs. It cannot. Source: Reddit's ToS and reality: >d. User Content. Reddit user photos, text and videos ("User Content") are owned by the users and not by Reddit. If I want to replace what I posted with seventy five consecutive poop emojis, I am fully in my right to. Coupled with the right to be forgotten and the illegality for reddit to prevent me from doing so, it serves as a perfect tool to poison LLMs.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Additionally, if they leave the edit functionality intact for older posts they would have no legal grounds to stand on. It's not "hacking", or in any way unlawful, for a user to use an option provided by a company. I predict that if they want to do something about this they'll go the HN route and just make posts uneditable/undeleteable after some time.