4 ms·

Why would "convincing people to take the bus instead of a car" require coordinated action? Just stop letting them buy gas. (Where by "them" I mean individual pa

by derefr 3y ago

Why would "convincing people to take the bus instead of a car" require coordinated action? Just stop letting them buy gas. (Where by "them" I mean individual passenger-vehicle drivers. Continue to allow commercial vehicles to buy gas, but require that they show their commercial-vehicle license at the register.) A country could do it; or it could be done city by city with municipal bylaws to act only upon the worst polluting regions. And, since the only restriction would be on buying gasoline, people who still wanted to drive could just buy EVs.

throwaway22032 3y ago
So it's Monday morning, the UK government announces that petrol and diesel cars are no longer. They make clear that this is permanent. A ton of people now have vehicles that are basically scrap metal, they've lost tens of thousands overnight. There are physically not enough EVs, or charging infrastructure, or maybe even the grid capacity in order for people to switch. By 10am, immigration lawyers' phones around the world are off the hook. If you phase it, then you're just describing what is already happening, this is what coordinated action looks like.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  By 1pm current PM and MPs would meet the destiny of King Charles I. by hand of its own voters.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    God Save the King.
baremetal 3y ago
Meanwhile China is bringing on a new coal plant every week. Actually, 2 new plants a week [1]. But you suggest we stop selling gas to people. https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-new-coal-power-plants-per-week-in-2022/ https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-...
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Just stop letting them buy gas? That would take either: - That companies (plural) stop selling gas. That's coordinated action, because you need all the oil companies (or all the gas stations) to agree. - That the government decides it. But in a democracy, that takes coordinated action too. The president does not have the constitutional authority to decree "no more sales of gasoline for passenger vehicles".
- derefr 3y ago
  On the top level: OPEC (a coalition of mostly totalitarian states) can decide to restrict sale of petroleum to only be purchased by states, not private companies. Where that decision could be forced by just a few other states, at gunpoint. Let me put it this way: why do you think there isn't an OPEC-like private marketplace for uranium? Because states don't want there to be such a thing. States make themselves an oligopsony for the purchase of uranium, and then regulate its distribution to only parties they want to have it. And people generally like it that way. (Also, the president of the United States is a bad example of what a country's executive's powers generally are, because federalism. Most other heads of states can just make a decree like that.) But state action is a less-likely scenario, and also not the one I was really imagining. The more likely scenario is local action — i.e. a mayor enacting a bylaw for their municipality such that gas stations that don't regulate sale of gasoline would be blocked from operating within city limits. (And sure, you could drive outside the city limits to get gas... but presuming the metropolitan area is large enough, you might burn the whole tank just getting back home after doing that.) A mayor does have that power. They need no referendum, no legislature, to pass such a bylaw. They merely need the people to be okay-enough with the action to not impeach them in response. (In fact, technically, you don't even need the bylaw. Businesses only operate on physical commercially-zoned properties in cities at the city's sufferance; a city government is free to revoke a given business's ability to operate on such property at any time, for no reason. A city can un-make the zone a business is operating under, and replace it with a new zone that has different rules, that then exclude that business. This happens all the time!) From there, it spreads not by coordinated action, but just by other city governments seeing the idea and copying it.
  - 3y ago
throwanem 3y ago
Congratulations! You've just made it impossible for the people who operate every essential service on which you depend to get to work.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
techdmn 3y ago
Slightly more plausible alternative: cessation of fossil fuel subsidies.

by derefr 3y ago

throwaway22032 3y ago

So it's Monday morning, the UK government announces that petrol and diesel cars are no longer. They make clear that this is permanent. A ton of people now have vehicles that are basically scrap metal, they've lost tens of thousands overnight. There are physically not enough EVs, or charging infrastructure, or maybe even the grid capacity in order for people to switch. By 10am, immigration lawyers' phones around the world are off the hook. If you phase it, then you're just describing what is already happening, this is what coordinated action looks like.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
By 1pm current PM and MPs would meet the destiny of King Charles I. by hand of its own voters.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  God Save the King.

baremetal 3y ago

Meanwhile China is bringing on a new coal plant every week. Actually, 2 new plants a week [1]. But you suggest we stop selling gas to people. https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-new-coal-power-plants-per-week-in-2022/ https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-...

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Just stop letting them buy gas? That would take either: - That companies (plural) stop selling gas. That's coordinated action, because you need all the oil companies (or all the gas stations) to agree. - That the government decides it. But in a democracy, that takes coordinated action too. The president does not have the constitutional authority to decree "no more sales of gasoline for passenger vehicles".

derefr 3y ago
On the top level: OPEC (a coalition of mostly totalitarian states) can decide to restrict sale of petroleum to only be purchased by states, not private companies. Where that decision could be forced by just a few other states, at gunpoint. Let me put it this way: why do you think there isn't an OPEC-like private marketplace for uranium? Because states don't want there to be such a thing. States make themselves an oligopsony for the purchase of uranium, and then regulate its distribution to only parties they want to have it. And people generally like it that way. (Also, the president of the United States is a bad example of what a country's executive's powers generally are, because federalism. Most other heads of states can just make a decree like that.) But state action is a less-likely scenario, and also not the one I was really imagining. The more likely scenario is local action — i.e. a mayor enacting a bylaw for their municipality such that gas stations that don't regulate sale of gasoline would be blocked from operating within city limits. (And sure, you could drive outside the city limits to get gas... but presuming the metropolitan area is large enough, you might burn the whole tank just getting back home after doing that.) A mayor does have that power. They need no referendum, no legislature, to pass such a bylaw. They merely need the people to be okay-enough with the action to not impeach them in response. (In fact, technically, you don't even need the bylaw. Businesses only operate on physical commercially-zoned properties in cities at the city's sufferance; a city government is free to revoke a given business's ability to operate on such property at any time, for no reason. A city can un-make the zone a business is operating under, and replace it with a new zone that has different rules, that then exclude that business. This happens all the time!) From there, it spreads not by coordinated action, but just by other city governments seeing the idea and copying it.
- 3y ago

throwanem 3y ago

Congratulations! You've just made it impossible for the people who operate every essential service on which you depend to get to work.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

techdmn 3y ago

Slightly more plausible alternative: cessation of fossil fuel subsidies.