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WHAT? he was responding to your words that stated "Every version of macOS that shipped with a CD had either PBX (Project Builder X) or Xcode..." when he point

WHAT? he was responding to your words that stated "Every version of macOS that shipped with a CD had either PBX (Project Builder X) or Xcode..." when he pointed out that the mac DIDN'T come with CD or any dev environment. you responded with "That there was no dev environment on release demonstrates precisely nothing" can't you see how wrong your response is?

sbuk 3y ago
I did point out that "Every version of macOS that shipped with a CD had either PBX (Project Builder X) or Xcode...", and in the same post pointed out that "Last time I checked, the Mac that shipped in 1984 didn't have a CD drive, and the original Mac OS that shipped with the system was a ROM, so no CD was shipped with it..." So you're annoyed that I pointed out that every version of Mac OS (including System 7.5, 8 and 9) all shipped with some kind of dev environment (and I concede that Hypercard is applying that loosely) and pointed out that the 128K Mac did not have an OS shipped on a CD or a method for reading the CDs at the time (were CD-ROMs even a thing in 1984 - I can't remember)? I tell you what it doesn't prove either way; programable computer were "despised by Steve Jobs". That is what I was taking umbrage with.
- bogantech 3y ago
  For someone who doesn't seem to know what a floppy disk is you seem to think you know a lot about computers from the 80s
coldtea 3y ago
The OP point was that Jobs hated users having access to programming tools and not wanting to ship them with his computers. The original 1984 Mac on release not having a dev environment was just an example he used to make his point. But the example can be correct, without making the point valid (as numerous people have answered here). Especially since the same Jobs had shipped tons of computers with development environments, including things like PBX, XCode, all kinds of scripting languages, the whole NeXT suite of dev tools (that were one of its strong points, and became the later basis for OS X dev tools), and so on. If the parents point was "at the point of the release of the original Mac in 1984, and only then, Jobs didn't want to give users development environment" he might have a point. But Jobs of the subsequent 20+ years agreeing to ship development tools just fine, makes the point moot. can't you see how wrong his point is and how irrelevant the example?

sbuk 3y ago

I did point out that "Every version of macOS that shipped with a CD had either PBX (Project Builder X) or Xcode...", and in the same post pointed out that "Last time I checked, the Mac that shipped in 1984 didn't have a CD drive, and the original Mac OS that shipped with the system was a ROM, so no CD was shipped with it..." So you're annoyed that I pointed out that every version of Mac OS (including System 7.5, 8 and 9) all shipped with some kind of dev environment (and I concede that Hypercard is applying that loosely) and pointed out that the 128K Mac did not have an OS shipped on a CD or a method for reading the CDs at the time (were CD-ROMs even a thing in 1984 - I can't remember)? I tell you what it doesn't prove either way; programable computer were "despised by Steve Jobs". That is what I was taking umbrage with.

bogantech 3y ago
For someone who doesn't seem to know what a floppy disk is you seem to think you know a lot about computers from the 80s

coldtea 3y ago

The OP point was that Jobs hated users having access to programming tools and not wanting to ship them with his computers. The original 1984 Mac on release not having a dev environment was just an example he used to make his point. But the example can be correct, without making the point valid (as numerous people have answered here). Especially since the same Jobs had shipped tons of computers with development environments, including things like PBX, XCode, all kinds of scripting languages, the whole NeXT suite of dev tools (that were one of its strong points, and became the later basis for OS X dev tools), and so on. If the parents point was "at the point of the release of the original Mac in 1984, and only then, Jobs didn't want to give users development environment" he might have a point. But Jobs of the subsequent 20+ years agreeing to ship development tools just fine, makes the point moot. can't you see how wrong his point is and how irrelevant the example?